Ice store at Moon's South Pole is a myth: study

AFP ^ | 10/19/06

[presidio9]

Hopes that the Moon's South Pole has a vast hoard of ice that could be used to establish a lunar colony are sadly unfounded, a new study says.

In 1994, radar echoes sent back in an experiment involving a US orbiter called Clementine appeared to show that a treasure trove of frozen water lay below the dust in craters near the lunar South Pole that were permanently shaded from the Sun.

If so, such a find would be an invaluable boost to colonisation, as the ice could be used to provide water as well as hydrogen as fuel. NASA is looking closely at the South Pole as a potential site for the United States' return mission to the Moon, scheduled to take place by 2020.

But a paper published in the British science journal Nature on Thursday by a US team says the Clementine data most probably was misinterpreted.

Donald Campbell of Washington's Smithsonian Institution and colleagues collected radar images of the Moon's South Pole to a resolution of 20 metres (65 feet), looking especially at Shackleton crater, which had generated most interest.

The team found that a particular radar signature called the circular polarization ratio -- which in the Clementine experiment was taken to indicate thick deposits of ice -- could also be created by echoes from the rough terrain and walls of impact craters.

The signature was found in both sunny and permanently shady areas of crater, which suggests that the reflection comes from rocky debris, not thick ice deposits.

If there is any ice at the South Pole, it probably comes from tiny, scattered grains that probably account for only one or two percent of the local dust, the authors suggest.

"Any planning for future exploitation of hydrogen at the Moon's South Pole should be constrained by this low average abundance rather than by the expectation of localised deposits at higher concentrations," the paper says soberly.

The research involved sending a radar signal from the Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico. The signal hit the southern lunar region and the reflection was picked up by the Green Bank Telescope in West Virginia.

[Louis Foxwell]

Thank you for the fine quote from Firefly. This was the single most important storyline in the history of drama. It depicted free people living lives of integrity outside the structure of Big Brother. No wonder it was cancelled.

[Hegemony Cricket]

Not that ice pirate, but thanks for playing... :-)

[doc30]

Is the $100K per kilo based on rocket technology? I'd be very interested in other delivery mechanisms that would be too harsh for humans or electronic equipment, but would work fine on ice or liquid water. I remember the Canadian who was working on Saddam's Supergun originally started his work on using artillery to shoot things into orbit. Since the massive acceleration from such a gun would not be an issue for simple, raw materials, what do you suppose the cost per kilogram would be?

[Oberon]

If you want to terraform Mars, the first thing you have to do is crank up the gravity to a level that will sustain an atmosphere dense enough to breathe.

Once you've solved that problem, the rest of it should be a piece of cake. =]

[presidio9]

Do I detect a young Ron Pearlman in this picture?

[Vaquero]

WWBBD????

[Vaquero]

Apu: Ooh, a head bag! Those are choc-full of... heady goodness!

[Kirkwood]

Find a passing comet full of ice and redirect it to hit the moon (try not to hit the earth while you're doing that).

[Old Student]

"Why is the federal government looking for more ways to waste money. There is no economic benefit in colonizing the moon. If this country had more money than it knew what to do with (i.e. nobody paid any taxes) I couldn't care less. Instead we are looking for more frivilous ways to spend more money."

Because the Moon is the first step to the rest of the solar system, and once we have a station there, we can reach anywhere else we need to go. There is a TREMENDOUS benefit, and not just economic, in doing so. Just ONE little benefit, we could move most industry off-planet, and make the greens happy without having to do the zero-population-growth BS.

[doc30]

If you want to terraform Mars, the first thing you have to do is crank up the gravity to a level that will sustain an atmosphere dense enough to breathe.

I am amazed at how many people think we just need to warm the planet and add atmosphere to get a decent pressure and temperature at the surface. What they fail to understand is that a higher gravity is needed. With the current gravity, warming the planet will result in a loss of atmosphere. With a higher temperature, the Boltzmann distribution of gas molecule speeds will have the high speed tail stretching well past escape velocity with the current gravity on Mars. Warmer Mars = less atmosphere. Or you could jusr dig really, really deep holes so the atmosphere would be of satisfactory pressure. Colonists on Mars would live in deep 'hobbit holes'. The hole depth would increase protection from cosmic radiation, too.

[Old Student]

"What they fail to understand is that a higher gravity is needed. With the current gravity, warming the planet will result in a loss of atmosphere. With a higher temperature, the Boltzmann distribution of gas molecule speeds will have the high speed tail stretching well past escape velocity with the current gravity on Mars. "

Drop enough small asteroids on Mars, (and I'm talking a LOT of them!) and increase the mass while building up the gas pressure and temp, all at once... Of course, we probably ought to look the place over rather carefully first, as there isn't much that would survive the "rain" we caused. (Simplistic solutions for simplistic people...)

[doc30]

Drop enough small asteroids on Mars, (and I'm talking a LOT of them!) and increase the mass while building up the gas pressure and temp, all at once... Of course, we probably ought to look the place over rather carefully first, as there isn't much that would survive the "rain" we caused. (Simplistic solutions for simplistic people...)

You are right, not much would survive adding sufficent mass to increase the gravity of Mars. Such mass would add hundreds of kilometers to the diameter of the planet. Nothing original would remain.

[Leo Carpathian]

Easiest way to make ICE is to take the RICE and take away R and you end up with ICE. Add some algore global warmint and you get water. Add some surplus CO2 and you get club soda. Add some Scotch and civilization is fully suported.

[Chances Are]

Easiest way to make ICE is to take the RICE and take away R and you end up with ICE. Add some algore global warmint and you get water. Add some surplus CO2 and you get club soda. Add some Scotch and civilization is fully suported.

You have obviously given this a lot of thought. Have you applied for a job at NASA yet?

CA....

[Junior]

I found an ancient article dealing with this:

http://www.allbusiness.com/professional-scientific/scientific-research-development/336939-1.html#

In 1992, it cost $20K per payload kilo while a supergun could do the same job for $500, or about 2.5 percent of the cost of a shuttle launch. If the cost per launch is $100K now (a number I ran across in the past year or so) it would still only cost about $2500.

[Lx]

That was one of my favorite episodes. I loved it, Hitler blaming the end on the bear, too funny.

[exile]

"Ice store at Moon's South Pole is a myth: study"

D@mn. We were this (holding two fingers really close together) close to getting Ted Kennedy to build a rocket for his fat @ss and a case of scotch.

[Old Student]

"You are right, not much would survive adding sufficent mass to increase the gravity of Mars. Such mass would add hundreds of kilometers to the diameter of the planet. Nothing original would remain."

Oh, most of it would still be there. In itty-bitty-teensy-weensy pieces, but it would still be there...

[Old Student]

oh, and under a couple of hundred kilometers of later debris, too...

[doc30]

If that's the case, let's start building really, really big guns!!