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To: TigerLikesRooster
I wonder, maybe the nuclear test was part of a different ploy. N.Korea fakes a nuclear blast. The results cannot be confirmed by a majority of free nations. Russia steps in after a few days when doubt is building and states that the test was indeed nuclear. The statement leaves us considering that perhaps the blast was nuclear in nature, but on such a small scale that it would not register or be as obvious as a conventional large yield blast would be. The world is partially inclined to listen to Russia and assume that some sort of test took place for a "suitcase nuke".

Russia considers their tails covered and feels they are now free to covertly transport such armaments or the technology to build them as the world is inclined to believe that N. Korea has already produced said armament on it's own. Russia establishes a new client for nuclear technology without directly exposing itself as the provider of said technology. Maybe N. Korea keeps them or sells them to other rogue nations? Their money is still good...

OK, more coffee...

Yet here is another aspect to this. China has the upcoming Olympics to be concerned about. They are pouring loads of national resources into this effort as a showcase for what the nation and the Communist party has achieved. Having a nuclear power lead by a madman on their border simply isn't good for tourism. It could savagely curtail their efforts towards the end of complete and total failure to even get certain major nations to compete or show up, whether they are friendly or not.

Russia might not mind this at all. China is a rival empire, an allie at times, but no less a rival for the most part. So maybe China has a far larger stake in a nuclear N. Korea than they appear to display. This can't be a good thing for China. They can't even convince Kim-illin' to return Chinese trains loaded with relief and supplies some of the time. The N. Koreans keep the trains and use them for state commerce, stating that the trains are part of the relief. Makes the Chinese look very, very weak.

N. Korea's ace in the hole? 20 million starving refugees who would likely storm over the Northern border like ravaging locusts should any internal weakness or along the border be evident. Wouldn't be prudent, no sir. Can't have that happen when you're trying to put on a good face for all the world to see. It would be a humanitarian crisis of unbelievable proportion. Oh, and now the N. Koreans have nukes, too.

Not good for China. Not good for neighboring nations/states that feel they now require nukes in order to maintain a balance of power. China suddenly finds itself within a building nuclear arms race against nations who previously didn't consider them necessary. Particularly Japan.

The Russians sit back and laugh...

Sorry y'all, but the South Park "Urinal Duke" episode really got me on the "conspiracy line" of thought this morning...

12 posted on 10/15/2006 3:40:19 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Caipirabob
.


Caipirabob,


Excellent, excellent analysis ... Suggest you post it at Wretchard's History blog ...


Patton-at-Bastogne

"May God and His Angels Guard Your Sacred Throne, and May You Long Become It ..."

Shakespeare, Henry V, Act I, Scene II


.
26 posted on 10/15/2006 4:42:39 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne
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To: Caipirabob
...N. Korea's ace in the hole? 20 million starving refugees who would likely storm over the Northern border like ravaging locusts should any internal weakness or along the border be evident....

keep hearin 'bout these 'locusts': w/china's population over 1 billion strong, these pests are absorbable w/o an overwhelming challenge to china. cannot be considered a real "ace in the hole".

29 posted on 10/15/2006 5:28:35 AM PDT by 1234 (WHO is Responsible for ENFORCING IMMIGRATION LAWS?)
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To: Caipirabob; TigerLikesRooster; Steel Wolf
Looks like China is suffering a similar problem our CIA has.

There are some things that the Chinese would rather spend their money on rather than a conflict with NK.



The world isn't stupid to North Korea's protectors/enablers. Even China has panic buttons that are being pushed. And if the world (countries with real value) decides, then Beijing won't have to devalue its currency artificially.

If the neighborhood decides to undo Kim Il Jong's fiasco, then the world might want to inventory its used/slightly damaged containers for humanitarian assistance in NK as substitute expeditionary housing.



I think it will be easier to bribe NK Generals further away from Pyongyang to control the sectors around Pyongyang making the capital a "forbidden city" rather than go toe to toe with Kim's personal guard.



China's strength is that it has personal history on how to retire a dynasty that isn't in step with the modern age. It may get bloody, but it'll be far smaller in scale than going toe to toe with a starving, desperate, and extremely xenophobic enemy armed with nuclear devices.

Kim is no dummy, and he'll smell the end a lot sooner than any of us will. I fully expect that Kim will purge his own ranks the way Stalin wiped out his leadership in 1937 in he isn't doing it already. In purging the old guard (similar to what Mao did with the Cultural Revolution), he'll have a highly radicalized and younger leadership corps albeit less experienced and less compromising with subordinate needs. If this happens, Kim's cult will bleed out much much quicker via mass starvation-implosion and devolving into a warlords territory. Essentially, North Korea will be a giant no-man's land that would frighten the toughest characters of Mad Max's Road Warrior films. If Kim doesn't purge, he's still doomed but with much less localized violence.

How could Kim lengthen his days? He could author his own "forbidden city" the way Pablo Escobar built his own prison, "La Catedral."



Kim will never have what Pablo had in means of engineering his escape or bribe the amount of people Pablo had in his pocket. Kim will feel much much safer in his forbidden city with his own personal guard and army of pretty girls while knowing that the rest of the world will want his head the moment he transits out of Korea. In fact, he may even thumb his nose at us and really upset those who think that he's gotten away with murder. He won't. He'd be left to God's Justice.

This might work given that the Korean is considered the "hermit kingdom". It might appeal to Kim if he had his supplies of drink, guns, girls, DVD/video collection, and even an on-line connection for whatever websites he surfs (on-line gaming?)



The angle he could work is giving the appearance of being magnanimous by retiring. And if this is the path he chooses, we just might consider that he is BEING MAGNANIMOUS for retiring without having us put his lights out for him...via a lot of killing.

Why would he say that he's retiring? He'd inform all Koreans that he's met his life's goals in making the Korean peninsula a nuclear power and a self-sustaining nation not requiring foreign intervention or overseers. In fact, that might work into the equation of his delaying retirement: "I can't/won't retire until foreign non-Koreans are off the Korean Peninsula...meaning all coalition forces be it Chinese, American, Russian, whomever."

Of course, if this were the case, the Koreans themselves would want Kim dead dead dead for all of the misery he brought them. Thus, a Coalition force is necessary to PROTECT his retirement from revenge.

But Kim can't hold the tide much longer. Sanctions will starve the miserable population. Generals and senior military/police officials will be bribed. Sectors will be lost to foreign humanitarian aid. Kim doesn't have a lot of time to make the deal first. He'd better draw the contract up and the city's defensive lines out. He'd better choose his guard and concubines now. He'd better have his Internet connection secure and a lifetime supply of high speed bandwidth for Internet movies and gaming. Because if he delays too long...

...will spend money on going to the Beijing Olympics, no one will experience appreciating property value for Olympic construction, no one will install high bandwidth Internet/media for Olympic programs, no one will do business for the nations guarding the little tyrant, and those footing the bill for this lost opportunity will see all of their future get turned over to India (vast/high density and well-educated population needing a lot of blue collar jobs...who's already packing nukes for self-preservation). If India goes internationally MFN over this, then China gets screwed...and China knows it.

The modern Chinese generation isn't a peasant army that only needs one set OD green utilities to function day in and day out.



The Cult of Mao is Dead


65 posted on 10/15/2006 3:46:25 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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