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To: antiRepublicrat
. . .smoke is subject to chaotic, unordered conditions.

No. It is only the appearance of chaos. Smoke behaves in a manner as designed, under laws that have been established to govern it.

. . . but thanks to materialistic science we know [lightening is] not from angry gods . . .

Really? How does science know this?

Intelligent Design is evolution, only saying God did it instead of it happening naturally.

I suppose if you must infer a deity by capitalizing the words "Intelligent Design" then it may be understood you are attributing intelligent design to God. You are correct in stating that evolution is no better explained by naturalism than it is by deism. But cases where organized matter performs specific functions are best understood as examples of intelligent design asopposed to some alternative. What alernative would you propose as the cause behind organized matter? Or would you just throw up your hands and say, "Nature did it!"

. . .and if you ever succeed in directly detecting and verifying the "designer" . . .

So all of sudden direct observation has become the benchmark for acceptable science. Looks like those concocted histories of billions of years just went out the window as "science."

830 posted on 10/18/2006 10:20:20 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
No. It is only the appearance of chaos.

It's chaos. Initial conditions can influence the general parameters of the action of the smoke, and it will exhibit ordered laminar flow initially, but it quickly breaks down into chaos. If you'd like to win a Fields Medal, then be my guest and prove how it isn't chaos.

Really? How does science know this?

Rational observation and experimentation.

I suppose if you must infer a deity by capitalizing the words "Intelligent Design" then it may be understood you are attributing intelligent design to God.

I capitalize because that's the name of the movement as coined by its originators, who themselves hold the Christian god as the designer.

But cases where organized matter performs specific functions are best understood as examples of intelligent design asopposed to some alternative.

You haven't shown such a case. Forget Behe, he's been discredited.

Or would you just throw up your hands and say, "Nature did it!"

No, we objectively observe and see how life adapts to its environment.

840 posted on 10/18/2006 10:46:15 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Fester Chugabrew
No. It is only the appearance of chaos. Smoke behaves in a manner as designed, under laws that have been established to govern it.

Are you using a private definition of chaos, too? From Wikipedia: Chaos:

In mathematics and physics, chaos theory describes the behavior of certain nonlinear dynamical systems that under certain conditions exhibit a phenomenon known as chaos. Among the characteristics of chaotic systems, described below, is the sensitivity to initial conditions (popularly referred to as the butterfly effect). As a result of this sensitivity, the behavior of systems that exhibit chaos appears to be random, exhibiting an exponential error dispersion, even though the system is deterministic in the sense that it is well defined and contains no random parameters. Examples of such systems include the atmosphere, the solar system, plate tectonics, the phosphate starvation signaling pathway in Saccharomyces cerevisiae, turbulent fluids, economics, population growth and the vast variety of thermodynamically open systems operating far from equilibrium.

860 posted on 10/18/2006 11:22:33 AM PDT by si tacuissem (.. lurker mansissem)
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