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To: Fester Chugabrew
That analogy doesn't hold water.

Fine, you want unordered? Take the smoke from a cigarette, unordered chaos. Disproved.

How specific do you want it to be?

It would help if you stated that you expect a specific ordered thing to appear in the future, that its appearance is best explained by your theory. Or, since we're going forensic, that an existing specific ordered thing should be found that isn't easily explained by competing theories. The ToE did this.

To say intelligent design predicts order, and that order may considered a product of intelligent design is to place the intelligible universe into a scientific paradigm that has been used since the beginning.

I've read about this paradigm, as it's the one that had people thinking that lightning was caused by angry gods.

At times there is direct involvement. At times it is residual. Nothing supernatural about that. Or do you get all religious when you see a machine running by itself with no operator standing at its side?

Now you repeat back to me what I proposed earlier -- that God set up the mechanism and left it alone to this end result. Of course, that in no way affects the validity of the ToE, as it would be just as accurately describing God's machine.

The word "supernatural" can only be applied subjectively by each observer. It has no scientific merit.

What part of "natural science" do you not understand?

On the contrary, it is precisely because they are public schools paid for by the public that they may allow teaching of intelligent design both as a scientific and as a religious subject.

As a religious subject, I'll agree, but it's still not science.

761 posted on 10/17/2006 2:19:53 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
Sorry, but even smoke has properties consistent with intelligent design, beginning with it's property of being intelligible, and ending with its evidence of a cause and effect process that has taken place consistently since the beginning of time, namely combustion. Speaking of lightning, science still cannot predict where it will strike. Does that make it supernatural? Science does not know the cause of gravity. Does that make it supernatural?

Intelligent design is not the antithesis of evolution. Evolution as long as we have observed it has always taken place within limits. That, too, is something we would expect of intelligent design.

What part of "natural science" do you not understand?

What part of arbitrary and subjective do you not understand? The word "natural" is not a scientific term, but philosophical. What is supernatural about intelligent design when you do it all the time? Are you supernatural and beyond the scope of the so-called natural sciences?

777 posted on 10/17/2006 3:18:36 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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