Posted on 10/09/2006 2:44:09 PM PDT by oldtimer2
I would like to see a discussion about this column. Just post what you think about what Mr. Jacoby has written.
I will not be near a computer until Tuesday a.m. but I will answer any comments directed to me at that time
Really wonder what the Islambies think of the amish reaction ? Not that I am implying they think about anything....
What some people don't realize that along with being a God of grace, he is also one of justice. In this case, justice was done, albeit the perp did it to himself, so the only thing left to do is forgive and reflect on what has happened. To continue to carry anything else, like bitterness and anger, would in and of itself be sinful, and would lead to nothing productive.
I think the Amish active of forgiveness and grace they have extended to the perps family is something we can all learn from and if I am ever in a similar circumstance, I hope I can be even a fraction of the witness these people have been.
Most heart wrenching, God will be the final judge, prayers for all that these wonderful people.
To forgive or not is up to the families of the victims. In this case the perp's own family have become victims in a sense.
Forgiveness can't be sincere if trussed up like a holiday turkey.
This word forgiveness is a most difficult word to explain.
I respect these people having the right to choose how and what to believe so I would not presume to think I should tell them what to do.
However, I as a parent hope and pray I never am put in the position to be tested on the depth of my forgiveness. I do not find Christ's teaching to be in opposition to the writings of King David... as Mr. Jacoby indicated.. “Let those who love the Lord hate evil,”
By all means, hate Evil. But not the evildoer. THAT is the Psalmist's lesson. And Christ's as well.
The murder of the Amish girls was a deeply hateful evil. There is nothing godly about pretending it wasn't.
I don't think anyone -- the Amish included -- are "pretending" the murders weren't evil. But they did not cause them. And if they were not responsible, someone else was. Someone created and watched over by God, the same as you and me. If God saw fit to let this man murder five innocent girls, who are we to question Him? No, it doesn't make any sense. It outrages us, confuses us, terrifies us. But if our faith is secure, it does not entitle us to demand that God justify Himself to Man.
All that said, don't think for an instant that I myself am remotely capable of that kind of forgiveness. The hatred I feel for this ... creature ... would burn holes in granite.
Forgiveness can't be sincere if trussed up like a holiday turkey.
I agree with Jacoby. Evil must be confronted, it must be hated for what it is - i.e. the opposite of good.
I can see forgiving someone who did YOU a wrong - provided that they wanted to be forgiven and were contrite, realizing the error of their (old) ways.
I cannot fathom forgiving someone for their wrongs committed against someone other than myself, and especially not if they weren't deserving of forgiveness (i.e. repentant in some way).
Believing Jews (of which I am one) know that Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) is when you ask G-d to forgive your sins of the past year which were committed against HIM. A prerequisite to being bold enough to ask/beg such forgiveness is you having previously forgiven those who did wrong against you, and sincerely apologizing and asking the forgiveness of those who you've wronged. In other words, even G-d Himself lacks the power to forgive someone for the wrongs that they've committed against other human beings. This is why the horrendous crimes of the Shoah/Holocaust cannot be forgiven - because the only ones who can forgive their own murder are unable to do anything. A survivor of the concentration camps could forgive them for the slavery/abuse/starvation, etc. committed against themselves, and for their suffering for the loss of their loved ones, but not for the actual taking of the lives of their loved ones, or the loss of their descendants for all generations in the future. It is almost incomprehensible how much less able are those of us who weren't alive at the time, and who live thousands of miles from the place of the crimes, are able to forgive the Nazis and their accomplices for those crimes.
Forgiveness is a wonderful concept, when applied correctly. When misapplied (as here), it is more a case of misdirected compassion than anything else. Such misdirected compassion can have terribly evil consequences, especially if the perpetrator of the wrong is still alive and still able to commit further acts. By forgiving him (or her), you are essentially saying "what you did is OK, and if you do it again we'll forgive you again." No, you're not literally saying this, but that's the message conveyed, like it or not.
Regarding these poor girls and their families, I have nothing but the most sincere sympathy, and I ask G-d to comfort their families as best as possible. If the Amish want to feel better by "forgiving" the murderer, then good for them - but I don't think it is a valid exercise. You cannot, IMHO, forgive someone for things they didn't do to you.
By the way, isn't "undeserved forgiveness" the kind the Almighty dispenses by His grace? Is there any other kind worthy of the name?
Thank you Mr. Jacoby.
L
The perp has nothing to do with the benefit of forgiveness, particularly if he is already dead.
Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself so that your life can go on in as much happiness as fleshly existence will allow.
"A man's mouth speaks what his heart is full of." -- Luke 6
If you speak forgiveness, your heart will follow.
I believe that is what the Amish do, and I greatly admire them for it.
Jacoby doesn't get it. Yes, its okay to hate, but you hate the sin, not the sinner. Its cliche, but true. It sounds to me like he's trying to justify his own hate for people who do this sort of thing. Perhaps the Amish reaction makes him a bit uncomfortable?
Shame on Jeff Jacoby. He judges these people? The killer is dead. Does he want vengeance wreaked on the murders chldren, or wife, or parents.
In this case anger solves nothing, the pervert is dead. I hope there is a hell for people like him. I believe in an afterlife, I just hope it isn't pleasant for everyone.
That the Amish, before the bodies of their children were even cold, had established a fund for the children of the attacker... is a breathtaking act of forgiveness...
You said -- "Really wonder what the Islambies think of the amish reaction ?"
Simple -- "An easy slaugher..."
Regards,
Star Traveler
An easy slaugher...
"slaughter" (of course...)
"Perhaps the Amish reaction makes him a bit uncomfortable?"
It is probably Christ living through them that makes him uncomfortable... :)
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