Posted on 09/30/2006 7:13:34 AM PDT by tgambill
BELGRADE – Just 12 percent of Serbs believe Serbia will hold on to its Kosovo province, according to the results of an opinion poll published on Friday that fly in the face of Belgrade's official line. Fifty-eight percent said they wanted the United Nations-administered province to remain part of Serbia, but few believe it is a realistic expectation, said pollster Marko Blagojevic.
'We have two dimensions here. One emotional, and the other rational,' said Blagojevic, of the respected Centre for Free Elections and Democracy (CeSID).
Serbian leaders 'managed to convince the people they want Kosovo to remain part of Serbia, but simply did not make a good enough case for them to expect this,' he said.
The United Nations is expected to decide within months whether to grant Kosovo a form of supervised independence, seven years after NATO wrested control of the majority Albanian province to stop what it said was becoming a bloodbath.
Serbia says Kosovo's amputation would violate international law and embolden ethnic separatists across Europe.
Parliament is poised to adopt a new state constitution that enshrines Kosovo as Serb land forever. Rhetoric plays constantly on its almost mythic status, the Serbs' Orthodox heartland and site of their epic 1389 defeat by the Ottoman Turks.
But of two million people who live there, 90 percent are ethnic Albanians who lost 10,000 people in the 1998-99 conflict and would see any return to Serb rule as a fresh call to war.
Diplomats say independence is almost certain.
According to the CeSID poll, conducted between Aug 26 and Sept 5, 36 percent said they expected independence. Seventeen percent thought the territory would be split in two, with Serbia taking a thin slice of mainly Serb land in the north.
Only 12 percent thought Kosovo would remain an autonomous region of Serbia, while 29 percent were unsure.
Serbs and Albanians opened direct talks in February in Vienna but there has been no compromise on the central issue of Kosovo's future status. U.N. mediator Martti Ahtisaari is expected to propose a solution by November which
"An inability or lack of desire to discern between them and the actual fanatics and criminals is what landed the Serbs on our bad side in all of their recent wars."
I see, so this is justification to support mobsters who murder opposition with the LDK party. This is your justification. Or, is this the line of crap they are feeding you and you believe it. You are correct that there are a great many non-fanatic, non-mobster residents.....looking out for their interests you are not. Allowing members of the PDK, AAK, TMK etc...murder innocent serbs and LDK members who speak out, is the reality. Ceku is not an actual fanatic????? and Criminal??? an Inabilty or lack of desire to discern between them........The Serbs landed on our bad side because we want them out of Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, Kosovo, in the future we will foster another conflict in Macedonia......supporting the NLA and ALI Ahm. and reforming the UCPMB maybe with another silly name, to stir up trouble in southern Serbia, and OH, don't forget that little operation planned in North Mitrovica to blame on the Serbs....so that KFOR can once again declare martial law in Northern Mitrovica, to make sure there is no partitioning as promised to PDK, AAK, Ceku, Haliti, etc....three fronts.....While within Kosovo the Albanian Mini-groups....[curious, Black Eagles still screwing with Serbs like they did in 1999-2003 and beyond?] are terrorizing the Serbs in Klina and others returneed locations........tisk tisk who are you fooling...?
Not going to allow you to get away with the BS....God forbid you actually believe them.
Working on the answers....I have another life unlike you. And giving you a history lesson is not one of my priorities, but, I am very much looking forward to giving you this one.....not for you but for my own edification and interest.
Clinton is a full-fledged sociopath with all the bells and whistles. But he's their (Libs) sociopath, which makes it okay.
Many of those dead were counted for by a hand, foot, pieces, some Serbs and some missing are mobsters and diaspora in the USA, London, and other European countries......don't even try. This is another screwed reason they call any number over three as a "mass grave"....to give the illusion that there were X number of mass graves, when they are actually just shallow graves with 3-4 bodies. Granted the Serb Police chiefs that murdered the POW's, or arrested KLA, UCPMB should be arrested; the Serbia of today is different than in Milo's time. Also, keep in mind who arrested Milo in the first place while Kostonica was away.....and who has an interest in planting...opppps, I mean finding surfacing trucks at the right time......hmmmmmmmm?
Clinton is not the long term "investor" in this scenario. He was groomed for the job as a donkey candidate....(fitting name for the group)....since he was gov-in-nor...:)) and diddling all those AK ladies within his grasp......Like a little boy in a candy store.....until his time came to become president. Check out his opposition.....:)) He is their groomed Sociopath who ran away from his draft hiding behind his sneaky screwed up character......yes, I guess that makes it okay? /sarc....you are right on target.......
The clinton administration and today's democrats see themselves as the 'friends' of the muslims...and want to gift the balkans to the Ummah as a token of 'peace'. Why not? Who will stop it?
We're trying.......but, you are right.
I tried to keep it short, as I know your attention span can be measured in milliseconds......:)) I'll also spare you what the history books say and tell you the real story.
There is no doubt or disagreement that Hitler played a major role in causing WWII. You can talk about his background, his book, the Nazi party, and so forth. However, for all this to happen takes money and material support. Hitler was not a millionaire back then, and Germany was having some trouble economically. So, how did he get the Nazi party off and running. Well, I found out by a little “dab” of research that a chemical cartel named I.G. Farben. In a particular book about this cartel the following was quoted, “without I.G. Farben’s immense production facilities, it’s far reaching research, varied technical experience and overall concentration of economic power, Germany would not have been in a position to start its aggressive war in September, 1939”. Well, let’s follow the money trail. How did Farbin become so wealthy? Yes, their money and wealth came from Wall Street, USA. Quote from a source, “Without the capital supplied from Wall Street, there would not have been I.G. Farbin, no Adolf Hitler and no WWII” or words to that effect. I.G. Farbin came to being in 1924 with business with different cartels, 800 million consolidated funds, basically a J.P. Morgan production….J.P. Morgan? Sound familiar? It should, check them out.
Now, what other benefits did I.G. Farbin have to give the Nazi Party? Yes, Zyklon B, the gas used by Auschwitz, Bitterfeld, Agfa, lduwigshafen, Buchenwald, Hoechst and a few others…. These boys also produced Chlorine gas used during WWI. Here is a bit of trivia…..remember Henry Ford. I found out that he merged his German assets with those of Farbin. The year was around 1928. Something else came around also…..hydrogenation, gasoline from coal. Oh, here comes a household name. In the fall of 1927, “Standard Oil”……did research for the development of this process for Germany to prepare for WWII. I’m leaving a lot out, but you got the gist so far.
Now, did you know that the truth; aside from the 1932 pre-election propaganda; was that Herbert Hoover did not support the business world. Surprise!! He also saw significant problems with the government controlling the business world. This becomes a key issue for the next generations to follow…..Oh, I know what you are thinking. FDR was portraying that he was for the little guy; well, remember, it’s election time. In reality, FDR was a creation of Wall Street. The big guys in “Wall Street” wanted FDR, but he was portrayed as being for the little guy, Hoover was for the little guy but the media ran him for the pro-big business. Deep pockets there, wouldn’t you say? Roosevelt defeated the incumbent Hoover. FDR now could start his move, called the “NEW DEAL” which was heading toward a Fascist State. A man named Whitaker Chambers; who had defected from the American Communist Party, made a comment about the New Deal. “A genuine revolution, whose deepest purpose was not simply reform within existing traditions but a basic change in the social, and above all, the power relationship within the nation”.
Now we are just getting warmed up. I do bet you know of this incredible scheme that was actually cooked up in from July 1932 to November 1933. This true to life plan involved a very colorful character named Major General Smedley Butler of the USMC. He was approached by certain wealthy capitalist from the United States to lead a revolution to overthrow the government and establish an American Fascist dictatorship. He was even tempted by this offer. Three gentlemen, representing a body of planners, proposed to General Butler a plan to seize the White House with a private Army of 500,000 very disgruntled veterans, hold FDR prisoner, get rid of him if he refused to serve as their puppet in a dictatorship they were going to control. Do a search on Butler and discover what he said about war and what he knew already. He asserted that the military really served the role as a collection agency for big bankers. This was actually confirmed in 1934 by the Senate munitions Investigating committee. Smedley Butler has won two Congressional Medals of Honor, and had been involved in many campaigns. This committee confirmed that, remember this word; “Standard Oil”, along with United Fruit, the sugar trust, the big banks, had been behind most of the operations he had lead. Do another search to find the McCormack-Dickstein Committee that investigated Butler’s charges. They confirmed his allegations. Also, if you are interested, I have a link to Jules Archer, author of, “The Plot to Seize the White House”. I even have my own personal copy. You can’t find anymore of them, or its’ very hard. I got lucky.
There are other folks that believe that Butler was maybe being set up, and that this incident was actually going to be the means that these big businessmen and FDR was going to use. Butler would lead this private Army to DC, this action would have resulted in FDR declaring a national emergency and imposing martial law and being supported by the American people. Well, that is another story, either way it was planned and would have succeeded, however, Butler, being a Marine in true form, revealed the plot and FDR had to be happy just being a President.
You ask, what does this have to do with the start of WWII. Well, it has everything to do with the start of WWII. The investigation went lame and just disappeared from sight. Among the powers that be, it was decided that the main way to recover and still achieve this goal was to involve the U.S. in a war. Note that in 1927 was the start of Standard Oil supporting Germany by refining the oil necessary to begin WWII.
For the sake of brevity, as this could become a book, FDR was the Assistant Secretary of the Navy in 1915 timeframe. During this time President Wilson had started provoking and demonizing the Japanese, true or not. It’s a fact that the American government at that time knew that we were vulnerable at Pearl Harbor and would be the location to provoke the Japanese. In 1932, the U.S. Navy conducted operations to test the chance that this could happen. It was easy from as close as 60 miles off the shore. You might be interested to note that in the early 1930’s the U.S. Ambassador actually wrote Roosevelt that one hundred American corporations or more had subsidiaries in Germany, DuPonts (remember that name), working in the armament business, I.G. Farben, and Standard Oil. Also, remember these buckeroos…..General Motors company. Interesting history there and Henry Ford. I.T.T. also purchased a large interest in the Focke-Wolfe, maker of airplanes which produced the same planes that were used to fight Americans. Oh, by the way, three members of I.G. Farben, Board of Governors, were tried and convicted as German War Criminals. There were many businesses involved with Germany during this time………It is known that these businesses knew the true nature of Nazism, but for their own purposes aided Hitler, anticipating a war in Europe with the U.S. involved. Quote from a reference: “Material support continued even after the war started, in 1938. Ethy Gasoline Corp., owned partially by General Motors and Standard Oil, asked to build tetra-ethyl plants in Germany, with full support of the U.S. Dept of War. You know of course after the Triparite Agreement was signed by the three axis powers, when Japan Attacked Pearl Harbor this justified us entering the war in Europe.
So, before I lose you, Hoplite; Let’s recap. What was the major source of Hitler’s financial power? I.G. Farben. They had a little known source of its major power Wall Street, USA. I’m going to give you quotes and references that I didn’t say but others did……..
Quote: “Without the capital supplied by Wall Street, there would have been no I.G. Farben in the first place, and almost certainly no Adolf Hitler and WWII. (Historian Anthony Sutton; “Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler”, 76 Press, Seal Beach, Ca. 1976; page 33)
Hoplite we are dealing with unpatriotic capitalist that are powerful people. General Butler turned their cowardly butts in to the government and they still survived. They purposely start wars for financial gain.
Quote: “The members of the council (on Foreign Relations) are persons of much more than average influence in their community. They have used the prestige that their wealth, their social position, and their education have given them to lead their country toward bankruptcy and military debacle. They should look at their hands. There is blood on them-the dried blood of the last war (World War II). (Chicago Tribune editorial, December 9, 1950; Quigley, Carroll “Tragedy and Hope” A History of the World in our Time, The Macmillan Company, New York, 1966, Page 950).
Well, remember, back then…….The American people did not want war. FDR said during the campaign of 1940:
Quote: “I have said this before, and I shall say it again and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars”. FDR
However, in 1933, (remember that year in the early part of this post?), FDR wanted to devise a way to get us into another war.
Quote: “Mr Farley wrote that at the second cabinet meeting in 1933, “The new president again turned to the possibility of war with Japan”. Cabinet member James Farley; (Farley, James, “The Roosevelt Years”, NY, McGraw-Hill Books, 1948. Page 39).
I actually have many more pages of quotes and commentary, 10 more quotes actually backing up what I’m talking about here. I will end up with this one…..
It seems that an Admiral Robery Theobold, who was at that time Commander of all destroyers at Pearl Harbor, said after his conclusions:
Quote: “President Roosevelt forced Japan to war and enticed them to initiate hostilities by holding the Pacific Fleet in Hawaiian waters as an invitation to that attack; the plans to use Pearl Harbor as the bait started in June 1940; and Roosevelt, Marshall (Army Chief of Staff) and Stark (Admiral, Chief of Naval Operations), knew about Pearl Harbor 21 hours before the attack.” Theobold, Robert, “The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor”, Devin-Adair Co. Old Greenwich, CT, 1954, pp 184-185, 197)
It also seems that Joseph Grew, was one of the first to discover that Pearl Harbor was the intended target when he corresponded with the Dept of State: January 27, 1940:
Quote: “The Peruvian minister has informed a member of my staff that the had heard from many sources, including a Japanese source, that, in the event of trouble breaking out between the United States and Japan, the Japanese intended to make a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor”…..(Same reference as above. Theobold, Robert)…..
You know the rest of the story….as a matter of fact, I did quite a bit of research and have for a long time. It suffices to say, this theme has been consistent since even the Bolshevik Revolution…for starters. The same players, just their offspring leads the way, by and by……even up to today.
ping
The American choice in regards to Japan in the 1930's and up to Pearl Harbor was either appeasement or confrontation.
Unlike our European friends' response to the Nazis, we confronted Japan, and they chose to go to war against us in order to continue their war in China.
What I'm looking for from you is an answer as to how Pearl Harbor could have been a setup, or what you'd base a belief that we knew an attack upon Pearl Harbor specifically, rather than our Philippine bases, was coming, and that we made sure it happened by obstructing the efforts of Pearl Harbor's commanders to protect themselves against a Japanese attack.
So how's about you eschew the disjointed Art Bell approach to history and concentrate your efforts specifically upon Pearl Harbor, as requested.
Thanks.
I did, you just don't listen.....So, for the edification of other readers and more research experience for me, I will focus solely on Japan. However, this is not a two paragraph answer and you got the big picture. It's apparent that you need information spoon fed since you have very little capability of finding out info for yourself. Or, is it that you are so narrow minded and shilling you want others to give you info so that you can make a feeble attempt to shoot holes in it as you are too lazy to actually seek out the truth. You certainly don't understand the big picture on how the true history has taken shape. You see, it makes no difference what is written you will make a desperate attempt to downplay it, and if you can't you will throw out humorous insults that actually brings a smile to ones face in knowing, almost in an arrogrant way that they have you in the palm of their hands...... :)) now, I know why they call you the "Under-Secretary"..... sort of like, "Underdog"....:))))
Okay, for fun I'll seek that answer and who knows, I might actually have another epiphany....whoa, Nelly.
I'm not after the accepted historical account of Pearl Harbor, Tom - I already have a firm handle on that.
What I am trying to get is for you to enlighten me as to what makes you say that Pearl Harbor was a setup.
And in order for me to do that, I can't rely upon the sources I'm familiar with - I have to ask you.
Which is what I've done.
M'kay?
MMMMm, you don't have a firm handle. You only have a handle on the story that you want to believe or should I say, misdirect and mitigate. Are you sure that you never worked or trained at an Embassy....;)) lolol...you sure sound like an Embassy wieny....boo hoooo.....
Hey, don't you ever sleep? We might as well use yahoooooo IM....
Thanks.
"Act my age" :)) lolol...boy, that is the pot calling the kettle black. Hippie, let me reinterate a point you always fail to understand. I have a life and a job, and answer in a hurry to those with sense. In that regard, no matter what I answer in your direction it will make no difference. You are the least signficant nut in the squirrel's nest. Acting one's age, is when they are mature enough to carry on a non-hysterical conversation, absent the insults, snide immature remarks like a young college freshman; and sentences that contain at least some references or bits of intelligent retort. You have none of these. So, no kidding, you have some serious issues to personally deal with that if you sought help, might make your life a little more tolerable. This isn't my problem, this is something that you and those around you have to suffer with......
So, in short, I'll answer the question when I have the time and I'm good and ready. So, you might want to cool your jets, and get some rest....you may need it.
Great. Thanks.
this is good. I can deal with this.
So, now, back to work and starting the day.
[historical account of Pearl Harbor...?]
I don't understand why this is such a "big deal?"...unless, of course, I'm missing something.
First of all, it appears that it's a matter of two posters that have an interest in discovering historical accounts.
Secondly, the same circle of organizations, and although generations later, it is the same agenda that has shaped the world even up to today......and there are plans yet to come to fruition. The historical account of Pearl Harbor will give just another root system to set the tone for what this group is capable of........long story short.
Oh, this same agenda is reponsible for our entrance into the Balkans. Long story short. There is no doubt. Years of research has produced the links.
You think we are going to do that again? I don't remember anytime in history where the US was so wrong in a war.
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