Serbs see Kosovo lost despite wishful thinking

Reuters ^ | September 29, 2006 | Matt Robinson

[tgambill]

BELGRADE – Just 12 percent of Serbs believe Serbia will hold on to its Kosovo province, according to the results of an opinion poll published on Friday that fly in the face of Belgrade's official line. Fifty-eight percent said they wanted the United Nations-administered province to remain part of Serbia, but few believe it is a realistic expectation, said pollster Marko Blagojevic.

'We have two dimensions here. One emotional, and the other rational,' said Blagojevic, of the respected Centre for Free Elections and Democracy (CeSID).

Serbian leaders 'managed to convince the people they want Kosovo to remain part of Serbia, but simply did not make a good enough case for them to expect this,' he said.

The United Nations is expected to decide within months whether to grant Kosovo a form of supervised independence, seven years after NATO wrested control of the majority Albanian province to stop what it said was becoming a bloodbath.

Serbia says Kosovo's amputation would violate international law and embolden ethnic separatists across Europe.

Parliament is poised to adopt a new state constitution that enshrines Kosovo as Serb land forever. Rhetoric plays constantly on its almost mythic status, the Serbs' Orthodox heartland and site of their epic 1389 defeat by the Ottoman Turks.

But of two million people who live there, 90 percent are ethnic Albanians who lost 10,000 people in the 1998-99 conflict and would see any return to Serb rule as a fresh call to war.

Diplomats say independence is almost certain.

According to the CeSID poll, conducted between Aug 26 and Sept 5, 36 percent said they expected independence. Seventeen percent thought the territory would be split in two, with Serbia taking a thin slice of mainly Serb land in the north.

Only 12 percent thought Kosovo would remain an autonomous region of Serbia, while 29 percent were unsure.

Serbs and Albanians opened direct talks in February in Vienna but there has been no compromise on the central issue of Kosovo's future status. U.N. mediator Martti Ahtisaari is expected to propose a solution by November which

[dirtboy]

I'm dealing with is your inability or unwillingness to answer my question as to how Pearl Harbor was a setup.

He never claimed such. Talk about the mother of all strawman posts. If that's all you've got left, stick a fork in you, you're done.

[Hoplite]

I showed that propaganda was false.

By accounting for all the military-age K-Albanian males during the relevant time frame?

Well you have my hearty congratulations then. Please direct me to the specific post wherein you accomplish this Herculean task.

Nothing like a non-denial denial, Hoplite.

In response to a non-issue issue, that's all you're going to get. Deal with this particular delusion however you see fit.

---

He never claimed such.

You might want to tell Tom, 'cause if that's the case, I wonder what WWII "setup" he's referring to.

[dirtboy]

By accounting for all the military-age K-Albanian males during the relevant time frame?

No, by showing all the claims were bogus. If NONE of the propaganda claims were proven out, that indicates there was no real intel at the time.

In response to a non-issue issue, that's all you're going to get. Deal with this particular delusion however you see fit.

And another non-denial denial. All you have to do is say "no". Very simple. I've said I'm one person. I can back that up with posters who have met me.

The fact that you refuse to do such speaks volumes, Hoplite.

[dirtboy]

You might want to tell Tom, 'cause if that's the case, I wonder what WWII "setup" he's referring to.

I see no such post on this thread. Perhaps you can tell me where I'm not seeing it. Or maybe it was one of your other team members who saw it on another thread.

[Hoplite]

If NONE of the propaganda claims were proven out, that indicates there was no real intel at the time.

Eventually we accounted for the missing Secretary Cohen mentioned, and the number of those murdered by Milosevic's forces has come down to a best estimate of around 10,000, where it will remain until Belgrade discloses the whereabouts of any remaining mass graves, as I alluded to in post # 10. However, until that time, we've recovered more than enough bodies to substantiate then Secretary Cohen's claim of "4,600 Kosovo men executed" made during the same interview as his much more widely quoted statement regarding the 100,000 missing.

---

Perhaps you can tell me where I'm not seeing it.

I could, but I won't. Let Tom deal with that issue.

[dirtboy]

Eventually we accounted for the missing Secretary Cohen mentioned,

Hey, I'll say tomorrow that 100,000 Shiites are missing in Iraq. If you account for them a week later, does that make what I said truthful? That seems to be your "logic" here.

And I notice you assiduously avoided the soccer stadium and mine claims I mentioned. Those were proven to be false as well. It isn't just a single claim. There were MANY that were proven to be bogus.

I could, but I won't. Let Tom deal with that issue.

You are the one who raised it. Show where he said it.

You really need to page whoever was posting yesterday. He/she is a lot better at this. You must be some third-tier weekend help.

[dirtboy]

I think Hoplite is actually a gang of posters using the same screen name. Hoplite refuses to deny such on this thread, and all it takes is a simple denial.

[Hoplite]

you pop up with some anti-Serb propaganda

It's merely the same "anti-Serb propaganda" used by the present Administration, John.

Perhaps you'd care to review American Balkan policy since President Bush took office and see how it's nothing but heartbreak and pain to our Serb nationalist friends.

Still, if you choose to side with the Serb nationalist dead-enders and drink down the bitter draught of defeat all the while bitching, moaning, and lying your ass off about what transpired in the Balkans, have fun with it. Just be advised to jump ship before Kosovo is granted independence, after which my friends here won't have the luxury of conflating their anti-American agenda with residual Clinton-era policies.

Do you happen to be an ethnic Albanian, Kosovar or a Muslim in general, even? That would explain a lot...

Nope. American by birth anglo saxon with no ties to the region. Sorry to disappoint.

[montyspython]

Its your military career that's really disappointing, and along with your self perceived importance, it makes it all that more funny for the rest of us. Keep posting stupid, we can all use the amusement.

Do try and keep your bulbous red nose nice and shiny m'kay?

[Smartass]

The HOPLITE CLOWN SAYS:
"Forget Kosovo, Tom - expound upon Pearl Harbor
and how that was a setup." BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

"Enquiring minds want to know how far off the reservation you've slipped." BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

"So how many people run your screen name, Hoplite?" BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

 

[Smartass]

HOPLITE, since you're so anti- Serbian, tell us some
stories about your real Islamofascist heros? WAITING ...

 

[Smartass]

Organized Crime in Kosovo

---

Serb politician: Recent bomb attack against minister shows mafia ruling Kosovo

source: BBC Monitoring Service - United Kingdom

Text of report by Serbian independent news agency FoNet

Saturday, 16 September 2006

Gnjilane, 16 September: A member of the Serb List for Kosovo-Metohija [SLKM, headed by Oliver Ivanovic], Vesna Jovanovic, said today that the bomb thrown on the night from Thursday to Friday [14-15 September] outside the house of a police minister in the Kosovo government, "should primarily be a message to the international community to finally realize how far Standards have gone in the first place and who has the power in Kosovo".

What can ordinary people expect if a bomb is thrown at the police minister, Jovanovic asked. She added that this incident created additional insecurity among the Serbs, who were "between a rock and a hard place ".

"On the one hand, there are Albanians who are hostile towards the Serbs, and on the other is the deeply rooted rule of the mafia in Kosovo, something which this bomb has demonstrated," Jovanovic explained.

The international community should understand the Serb anxiety and fear for their own security and it should respond adequately, not only by issuing declarations, Jovanovic emphasized in a statement for FoNet.

"It is being claimed without any scruples that Standards are being fulfilled, while on the other hand the citizens of Kosovo, especially the Serbs, do not have any fundamental feeling of security," Jovanovic assessed.

She said that "the international community should seriously take into account Serb proposals on how to achieve progress, and not ignore them for the most part".

Source: FoNet news agency, Belgrade, in Serbian 1057 gmt 16 Sep 06

 

---

 

To NATO:  Get out of, and off of Serbian lands.   Let Serbia control it's own destiny.

 

 

 

[kronos77]

Serbia claims Kosovo sovereignty

Serbia's parliament has unanimously approved a new constitution that claims sovereignty over the UN administered province of Kosovo.

The move, passed during a special session of parliament, opposes calls for the ethnic Albanian majority in Kosovo to be given independence.

Kosovo has been run by the UN since Nato intervened in 1999 to stop Serbia expelling the ethnic Albanian majority.

The proposed constitution will now face a referendum before it becomes valid.

Serbia's Prime Minister, Vojislav Kostunica, has indicated a referendum would also be followed by early elections, although he has not specified a date.

The UN has been hosting talks on the status of Kosovo; it has said the issue could be resolved this year.

'Integral part'

Mr Kostunica said the country's new constitution would provide a strong legal foundation for Serbia and allow it to move closer to European standards and values.

Mr Kostunica said there was no need to wait for the Kosovo issue to be settled before adopting the new constitution.

Instead, he said it would "cement the truth that Kosovo always has been and always will be an integral part of Serbia".

Until now Serbia has been operating under the old constitution of the former President, Slobodan Milosevic.

---

Iw just watched parlament session. ALL 242 present members woted FOR constitutin! Newer in my life saw that!
P.M. kostunica allmost yelled:"With this we have claimed Kosovo"

[Smartass]

Well, it's about time, and way over due...
Kosovo is now, and will always belong to Serbia. The UN, and/or NATO have no business intervening in a sovereign nation, nor have they the authority to partition said nation. The faster the Serbian government tells these meddlers to leave, the faster business in Kosovo will be resolved, instead of becoming another Islamofascist Balkans stronghold.

 

[Smartass]

THE EVILS OF MOHAMMAD'S ISLAM

Here's a pathetic story that can apply to any Islamic
controlled country, Bosnia and Kosovo included.

---

 

Iran : A 17 year old girl is sentenced to death by hanging.

Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders.
Thank you Amnesty International and thanks to all the friends who wrote to Amnesty International. Please keep writing to the Office of High Commissioner of Human Rights: tb-petitions@ohchr.org

Although AI calls Nazanin a "child offender", Nazanin is guilty of no offense. Self defense cannot be considered offense.

Nazanin, 17,  was sentenced to death by hanging for defending herself against three rapists.

A young girl who defended herself and her chastity against three male assailants who intended to kidnap and rape her causing injury to one of them who later died in hospital was condemned to death by hanging in an Islamic court in Iran. Nazanin who has seen no more than 17 Springs, all of which under the tyrannical rule of the Mullahs is now facing execution for trying to defend herself and her honor.

No where in the world and under no law self defense is considered to be a crime, but in the tyrannical mullacracy of Iran if a woman does not resist rape she will be stoned as adulterer and if she does she will be hanged.

Nazanin, this young innocent girl, was assaulted by three criminal men in the West of Tehran while strolling with her niece in a park last March (2005). To defend herself she pulled out a knife and stabbed one of her assailants. The knife penetrated the ribs of her attacker who later died in the hospital. The attacks on women in Iran is so frequent that many are forced to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. Unfortunately the Islamic law does not even allow women that right.

Despite the fact that she had been acting in self defense, as shown by the evidences presented and the testimony of eyewitnesses, Nazanin was sentenced to death by hanging. In the last court hearing she repeatedly said “I only defended myself and the honor of my family”. Her words fell of deaf ears and the all male jury who like their misogynist prophet thought it is outrageous for a woman to stand for her rights and defend her dignity and honor, swiftly ordered her execution.

The travesty of justice in Islamic Republic of Iran is beyond description. Please send this news to all the newspapers big and small. Please do not allow this crime go unnoticed. This girl is an innocent flower in the hands of ferocious beasts. Do not allow them to nip her young life in the bud. Let us together provoke an outcry so loud that the ruling thugs in Iran can’t ignore."

Nazanin was hanged by her neck until dead. Her death scene very likely resembled that of another public hanging of an Iranian woman shown in the photographs below. The victim resembles a crude rag doll. Women are little more than that in the evil domain of Islam.

 

 

[Smartass]

In contrast to a woman being hung under Islam, this is what Serbia is doing.

 

---

 

Source:  OSCE

Feature

Election of "virtual" women's government highlights inequality in Serbia

In July and August, Serbia went to the polls. Thousands of voters cast their ballots, choosing candidates for the positions of Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and 19 ministerial posts.

When all the votes were counted, the two top jobs went to women: the post of Prime Minister to senior Democratic Party official Ruzica Djindjic, wife of the late Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic, and that of Deputy Prime Minister to the current incumbent, Ivana Dulic Markovic.

But this was no ordinary election. The ballot, organized by the OSCE, the European Movement in Serbia and the daily Blic, was for the election of a "virtual" women's government, designed to highlight the fact that although there are many capable and highly qualified women in Serbia, not enough of them are in senior political positions.

Promoting equal participation

"The Serbian political arena is largely dominated and defined by men, who usually have the more visible political roles," said Zorica Mrsevic, an OSCE Gender Adviser, "but there are many women working hard in the background." Some of them already manage and lead various institutions. Tanja Miscevic, for example, heads the government office dealing with EU integration.

For those women who aim for the top levels of government, extra efforts are often required to combat traditional stereotypes and discrimination. "I have always had to be at least twice as good as my male colleagues," said Sladjana Prica, the Serbian Ambassador to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg.

Ambassador Hans Ola Urstad is the Head of the OSCE Mission: "Equal participation by women in decision-making is part of their fundamental right to contribute to political, social and economic life, and is the core of gender equality."

Raising awareness

But a significant increase of women in decision-making bodies will not happen overnight. It can only take place when citizens and governments recognize and support the need for greater participation by women. This process is beginning to take place in Serbia, thanks in part to the virtual women's government.

By informing citizens of the many women capable of taking on greater responsibility in government, the media campaign called on citizens to elect women ministers based on their qualifications and experience.

"This exercise aimed not to create an alternative to the current Government," said virtual Prime Minister Ruzica Djindjic, "but rather to once again strongly express the need to acknowledge the abilities of women in Serbia. We are ultimately striving for full equality."

Bringing in new ideas

In September, virtual ministers will present their programmes to the public to introduce new arguments into political discussions.

According to Jelica Minic of the European Movement in Serbia, the campaign has achieved several aims so far. It has shown that many women are interested and actively involved in politics. And with over 30,000 votes, it points to the possibility of new parliamentary elections.

The campaign also highlighted the importance of education in Serbia. "Educated women support youth education," said Minic. "Educated citizens, in turn, have high aspirations and the knowledge to reach them. Through advocating for their rights, they can influence the country's democratic development."

The project's organizers expect that the virtual government will act as a shadow "government of experts", providing alternative opinions to those of the national Government. The European Movement is interested in financing its activities. In addition, Serbian towns such as Novi Sad, Novi Pazar and Nis - supported by local newspapers and non-governmental organizations - are interested in similar local initiatives.

As for making it into the actual Government, Ambassador Urstad believes political parties hold the key because they choose the list of candidates. "I would advise women in Serbia to try to get on the inside of the political party nomination process," he added.

Aiming for real results

In Serbia, the lack of women among ministers and in politics in general might help to explain why it has been difficult to significantly change the country's image abroad.

"The project was an opportunity for citizens to get to know many outstanding women who can change Serbia for the better with their expertise, power and determination," said Deputy Prime Minister Ivana Dulic Markovic.

To support them, the OSCE Mission will continue to promote gender equality, particularly in politics. Ambassador Urstad hopes that by establishing the virtual women's government, it will now be difficult in Serbia to argue that there are not enough competent women, or even worse, that women have no interest in politics.

"We want real results, not only virtual ones," he said.

Written by Zorica Mrsevic and Ivana Jovanovic

13 September 2006

Jelica Minic from the European Movement in Serbia speaks at the end of the media campaign "Vote for Virtual Women's Government", Belgrade, 1 September 2006. Head of Mission Ambassador Hans Ola Urstad stands in the background. (OSCE/Milan Obradovic)

Links

Source link: OSCE Mission to Serbia

Documents

Talking points of the Head of the Mission to Serbia at the Women's Government Reception

English (88.4 Kb)
View as HTML: English

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[Hoplite]

So, in other words, you would instead side with Muslim fanatics and Albanian mobsters.

There are, believe it or not, a great many non-fanatic, non-mobster residents of Kosovo who's interests we're looking out for. An inability or lack of desire to discern between them and the actual fanatics and criminals is what landed the Serbs on our bad side in all of their recent wars.

You might want to make a note of that and avoid the same mistake yourself.

[LjubivojeRadosavljevic]

[" Still, if you choose to side with the Serb nationalist dead-enders..."]

Well Hoplite, if they're "dead-enders" (as you put it), then why waste your time?...Which is truly what the poster (John) was asking...and what I asked you the other night.

Answer: You're a disgruntled individual who has a lot of time on your hands that enjoys smashing others down with verbal assaults because you somehow feel that raises you up.