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To: sarasota
And so does survival vs. moral high ground.

If we can't both survive and remain the good guys, I'll just pack it in, thanks.

4 posted on 09/27/2006 7:19:22 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon

We can both survive and remaing the good guys, but not if the notion of 'good' is changed so that fighting a war becomes impossible and our means of dealing with enemies is to seek to be loved rather than feared.

In a democratic republic, we are all, collectively and individually, 'the prince', and reading Machiavelli's work (and maybe some Clausewitz and SunTzu) would do us all good.


7 posted on 09/27/2006 7:34:39 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Oberon
If we can't both survive and remain the good guys, I'll just pack it in, thanks.

That's an interesting moral position, and as someone with a passing interest in history, I often wonder about.

You are here because the vast majority of your ancestors will willing to slit and many throats as they had to in order to ensure that they, their families, and their tribe (of whatever size) survived to make it to the next round. Some people, even in relatively modern and liberal societies, did some very unsavvory things on the battlefield, then came home and lived quiet, moral lives.

I certainly appreciate the courage of your convictions, but I wonder what it says about the human race overall.

13 posted on 09/27/2006 8:46:17 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Oberon
If we can't both survive and remain the good guys, I'll just pack it in, thanks.

The trouble is letting the enemy define the moral high ground by using deceitful moral equivalency. Sleep deprivation becomes "torture". Opposing ideologies become "phobias". Executing convicted killers becomes "judicial murder". Common sense screening becomes "racial profiling".

If you are willing to "pack it in" rather than to be ill thought of by people who cannot distinguish between distasteful necessity and true evil, then get on with it. Your tender sensibilities are in the way of the defense of civilization.

16 posted on 09/27/2006 9:06:05 AM PDT by LexBaird (Another member of the Bush/Halliburton/Zionist/CIA/NWO/Illuminati conspiracy for global domination!)
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To: Oberon
If we can't both survive and remain the good guys, I'll just pack it in, thanks.

Of course the problem becomes, when does extracting information become torture? Answer that question and then you can make a decision on whether you are a good guy or not.

19 posted on 09/27/2006 9:33:13 AM PDT by Protagoras ( "moderation in principle is always a vice."........Thomas Paine)
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To: Oberon

I agree, taking the moral high ground and remaining the good guys is extremely important.


24 posted on 09/27/2006 4:05:14 PM PDT by FreeRep
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