Posted on 09/27/2006 6:43:02 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
LOS ANGELES -- The new documentary "Jesus Camp" is shocking Christians and non-Christians alike with its scenes of children sobbing and crying out to God at a Pentecostal summer camp in North Dakota.
The film follows Midwestern children Rachael, now 10, Levi, now 13, and Tory, now 11, who attended Fischer's Bible camp in Devils Lake, N.D., in 2005, according to the Los Angeles Times.
Filmmaker Heidi Ewing said she was raised Catholic and her co-director, Rachel Grady, is Jewish, enabling them to present what they hope is a neutral view of Pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" program.
Grady said Fischer let them make the documentary in hopes of reaching unsaved people.
In the film, the children cheered when asked if they'd be willing to give up their lives for Jesus, prayed over a cardboard cutout of President George W. Bush and cried as they pleaded for an end to abortion, the Los Angeles Times reported. The paper said that one of the children is home-schooled by a mother who teaches that "science doesn't prove anything."
Ewing said the children explained that they wept because God's heart is broken over a lost and sinful world. But she added that the children didn't seem unhappy -- just more intense than the average American child. Grady said all of the kids plan to become missionaries.
Some critics have labeled the camp a frightening example of brainwashing and child abuse.
"This is war! Are you part of it or not?," Fischer shouted at the children during the film.
Fischer proudly compared her Bible camp to indoctrination of young boys by extremist Muslims.
"If you look at the world's population, one third of that 6.7 billion people are children under the age of 15," Fischer said. "Where should we be putting our efforts? Where should we be putting our focus? I'll tell you where our enemies are putting it. They're putting it on the kids. They're going into the schools."
Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.
"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."
The filmmakers told the Times that they want the film to "make a broad statement about how politics and faith have become inexorably intertwined in America."
Fischer said that she plans to help promote the movie and that she is grateful for the national attention she's gotten from the movie and its controversy.
"I couldn't have paid for this kind of advertising," she said.
In the About Film section of the movie's Web site, it describes the movie as follows:
A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement. Jesus Camp follows a group of young children to Pastor Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire Summer Camp", where kids are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in God's army and are schooled in how to take back America for Christ. The film is a first-ever look into an intense training ground that recruits born-again Christian children to become an active part of America's political future.
"Jesus Camp" is already open in New York and will open in 20 more cities across the United States Oct. 6.
Never gonna happen because, like you said, they're basically cowards. It's much easier and great fun to attack and hollow out traditional American cultural and religious themes. They score points with their liberal friends, provide themselves with proof of the christian boogeyman, (never mind the straw sticking out of his sleeves) and best of all, there is absolutely no risk involved.
It could be interpreted the way you suggest by someone who doesn't understand what it means to lay your life down for the gospel.
Matthew 16:24-26
24Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?
It's about denying selfish and worldly desires and committing yourself to the glory of God. Not about blowing anyone up.
If the film is accurate - and at this time, there is no evidence to suggest it is not - then, as a conservative Christian I must say they provided a service: they identified a dangerous element within our own ranks. The pastor on that trailer sounded mentally unhinged, and assuming no editing shenanigans went on, she could quite easily become a Christian fundamentalist terrorist. It's time to police our own.
That would be a legitimate interpretation if that pastor didn't cite Muslim kids in Palastine and Iraq as her examples.
I don't know many who would do this - it was really N*zi-esque. Very, very. You would have expected those blonde Aryan twins to be singing on stage.
I've never been to or seen a Bible camp like this - but then, I'm pretty old-fashioned.
I believe it is irresponsible to say that this woman is suggesting violence by taking a quote out of context. Combine the quoted portion with the following from the article.
Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.
Any honest interpretation recognizes that she is contrasting Christian camps with Muslim camps.
These kids had on camo makeup on their faces and were wielding huge swordlike poles while doing ninja moves. It may be the way to reach kids nowadays, I don't know.
*I* didn't like it, with several kids featured speaking in tongues - but that's not *my* thing, so it's just my opinion of it.
don't get worried about this statement. It simply means that if you are asked " renounce Jesus or die" that you would be able to die and still say "I believe in Jesus Christ". No violence in that....the violence is the one holding a gun to your head and doesn't think it's enought to kill you but that he wants you to renounce Jesus Christ as you bleed to death. Whether you renounce Jesus or not, he is still gonna kill you. These kids are not being asked to kill themselves along with others in the name of Jesus but to hold on to the faith when someone wants to kill them BECAUSE of their faith.
The idea of being "ready to lay down your life for the Gospel" is one that has been around for a long time. In my experience it is more of a statement that one would rather be killed than give up their faith, not ready to go kill innocents to promote it. I sincerely hope this is what those running the camp mean.
At a Pentecostal camp? Doesn't everyone know that Pentecostals ALWAYS cry and slobber when they get together!
LOL! No kidding, they are among the most emotional Christians I have ever seen. Just visit your local Pentecostal church some Sunday. You can witness it first hand. The crying, the screaming, the moaning, the speaking in tongues. All part of a "usual" Sunday service.
Yup.
Personally, I prefer to "indoctrinate" my own child. I do not like the idea of sending my kids off to an isolated camp that uses such techniques...IF...the film is an accurate presentation of such.
I homeschooled, homechurched, and attended a Bible church with my eighteen-year-old son who is now attending college and considers himself a Christian. I never cared for revival-style (or TV preacher) Christianity, but I know some folks who got saved...and stayed saved because of it. However, a lot of revival style tactics involve route learning and pat sayings. They don't take unless there is regular reinforcement of the same techniques.
Give your child a solid background in the Bible...fellowship within a church that shares your beliefs and is not too legalistic or too liberal...live your life as Christ would want it...and try your best NOT to be a hypocrite 99% of the time, (we all are sinners...there for the grace of God go I) teach critical thinking skills, and the child should turn out all right. No guarantees, of course...but then free will is a gift from GOD and a good example from the parents can do wonders.
I was going to make the same point you make in post #31 supplemented by my post #30.
The nerve of them! How dare those children lament the bloody slaughter of one-third of their generation?!?!?!
Hi Demnomo
Maybe "Saved". I find that many "Saved" people aren't sure why they need a Savior. They simply bought into the Jesus thing because it sounded good. I asked my teen Sunday School class "Are you are good person who occaisonally does bad things or a bad person who occaisonally does good things?". They all agreed they were good. If you are good, why do you need a Savior?
If you want a better idea of what I am saying, download this mp3 and give a listen
http://www.wavtechnologies.com/media/mp3/Sermon_20060910.mp3
Another good example is Ray Comfort's famous "Hells Best Kept Secret" and "True and False Conversions" available here
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Pastor%5ERay%5EComfort
You are 100% right. We aren't trained to be critical thinkers and that is why we don't truly understand our need for Salvation.
So what is this? A way to show Christians as 'radical' as Muslims?
If only they shouted Allah Akbar while strapping bomb belts to themselves...........
Generally, I am hte first guy to give someone the benefit of the doubt; that said, it is not deserved in this opinion. Other posters had referenced the Ninja/camoflauge aspects. Then there's the comparison between these kids "laying down their lives for Christ" and the Islamic terrorists in Palastine and Iraq. The whole picture is not of an orthodox, go-out-and-preach-the-gospel message. I've grown up hearing those. This didn't ring that way. The whole picture makes those comments sound frighteningly like what is heard in the madrasssas of Pakistan.
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