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Crying Kids Pray Over George Bush At Jesus Camp - Film Documents Childrens' Summer At 'Jesus Camp'
WFSB.com, Hartford ^ | September 26, 2006 | Unattributed

Posted on 09/27/2006 6:43:02 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough

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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
So when are these two brave filmmakers going to take their cameras into the madrassas of Waziristan, where children are praying for the beheading of George W. Bush and the destruction of the USA?

Never gonna happen because, like you said, they're basically cowards. It's much easier and great fun to attack and hollow out traditional American cultural and religious themes. They score points with their liberal friends, provide themselves with proof of the christian boogeyman, (never mind the straw sticking out of his sleeves) and best of all, there is absolutely no risk involved.

21 posted on 09/27/2006 7:06:31 AM PDT by ecomcon
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To: LIConFem
radically laying down their lives for the gospel

It could be interpreted the way you suggest by someone who doesn't understand what it means to lay your life down for the gospel.

Matthew 16:24-26

24Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?

It's about denying selfish and worldly desires and committing yourself to the glory of God. Not about blowing anyone up.

22 posted on 09/27/2006 7:12:57 AM PDT by Pete
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To: ecomcon
See, I think this provides a service to us. It may have been intended to accomplish the malevolent goals you suggest (to make traditional American Christianity look bad), but I think this is an opportunity for us to re-evaluate and ask if we go too far in the hard sell to our kids? Do we actually brain-wash them in an attempt to make sure they are converted? Or do we rather asssist them with a relational discipleship model, coming alongside of them and helping them think through the intersection of their faith and their life?

If the film is accurate - and at this time, there is no evidence to suggest it is not - then, as a conservative Christian I must say they provided a service: they identified a dangerous element within our own ranks. The pastor on that trailer sounded mentally unhinged, and assuming no editing shenanigans went on, she could quite easily become a Christian fundamentalist terrorist. It's time to police our own.

23 posted on 09/27/2006 7:13:48 AM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: Pete
It could be interpreted the way you suggest by someone who doesn't understand what it means to lay your life down for the gospel.

That would be a legitimate interpretation if that pastor didn't cite Muslim kids in Palastine and Iraq as her examples.

24 posted on 09/27/2006 7:14:42 AM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: jude24

I don't know many who would do this - it was really N*zi-esque. Very, very. You would have expected those blonde Aryan twins to be singing on stage.

I've never been to or seen a Bible camp like this - but then, I'm pretty old-fashioned.


25 posted on 09/27/2006 7:15:42 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: jude24
That would be a legitimate interpretation if that pastor didn't cite Muslim kids in Palastine and Iraq as her examples.

I believe it is irresponsible to say that this woman is suggesting violence by taking a quote out of context. Combine the quoted portion with the following from the article.

Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.

Any honest interpretation recognizes that she is contrasting Christian camps with Muslim camps.

26 posted on 09/27/2006 7:17:44 AM PDT by Pete
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To: Pete

These kids had on camo makeup on their faces and were wielding huge swordlike poles while doing ninja moves. It may be the way to reach kids nowadays, I don't know.

*I* didn't like it, with several kids featured speaking in tongues - but that's not *my* thing, so it's just my opinion of it.


27 posted on 09/27/2006 7:19:59 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: LIConFem
I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel

don't get worried about this statement. It simply means that if you are asked " renounce Jesus or die" that you would be able to die and still say "I believe in Jesus Christ". No violence in that....the violence is the one holding a gun to your head and doesn't think it's enought to kill you but that he wants you to renounce Jesus Christ as you bleed to death. Whether you renounce Jesus or not, he is still gonna kill you. These kids are not being asked to kill themselves along with others in the name of Jesus but to hold on to the faith when someone wants to kill them BECAUSE of their faith.

28 posted on 09/27/2006 7:23:06 AM PDT by shiva
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To: LIConFem

The idea of being "ready to lay down your life for the Gospel" is one that has been around for a long time. In my experience it is more of a statement that one would rather be killed than give up their faith, not ready to go kill innocents to promote it. I sincerely hope this is what those running the camp mean.


29 posted on 09/27/2006 7:24:08 AM PDT by Ingtar (Prensa dos para el inglés)
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To: Rte66; jude24
Just so you know, I am not Pentecostal. My view is this. There are primary doctrines and there are secondary doctrines. As far as I understand, Pentecostals hold to the deity of Christ, his death, resurrection and atonement for sin that is, the Gospel. Those are the major doctrines. I am grieved when I read Jesus' prayer for unity in his church in the gospel of John and then see division in the church over secondary matters.
30 posted on 09/27/2006 7:25:17 AM PDT by Pete
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At a Pentecostal camp? Doesn't everyone know that Pentecostals ALWAYS cry and slobber when they get together!

LOL! No kidding, they are among the most emotional Christians I have ever seen. Just visit your local Pentecostal church some Sunday. You can witness it first hand. The crying, the screaming, the moaning, the speaking in tongues. All part of a "usual" Sunday service.


31 posted on 09/27/2006 7:25:45 AM PDT by micho
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To: AppyPappy
Give me a camera and I'll find you a nutty religious group.

Yup.

Personally, I prefer to "indoctrinate" my own child. I do not like the idea of sending my kids off to an isolated camp that uses such techniques...IF...the film is an accurate presentation of such.

I homeschooled, homechurched, and attended a Bible church with my eighteen-year-old son who is now attending college and considers himself a Christian. I never cared for revival-style (or TV preacher) Christianity, but I know some folks who got saved...and stayed saved because of it. However, a lot of revival style tactics involve route learning and pat sayings. They don't take unless there is regular reinforcement of the same techniques.

Give your child a solid background in the Bible...fellowship within a church that shares your beliefs and is not too legalistic or too liberal...live your life as Christ would want it...and try your best NOT to be a hypocrite 99% of the time, (we all are sinners...there for the grace of God go I) teach critical thinking skills, and the child should turn out all right. No guarantees, of course...but then free will is a gift from GOD and a good example from the parents can do wonders.

32 posted on 09/27/2006 7:26:18 AM PDT by demnomo
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To: micho

I was going to make the same point you make in post #31 supplemented by my post #30.


33 posted on 09/27/2006 7:27:55 AM PDT by Pete
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To: LurkedLongEnough
cried as they pleaded for an end to abortion,

The nerve of them! How dare those children lament the bloody slaughter of one-third of their generation?!?!?!

34 posted on 09/27/2006 7:28:11 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: demnomo

Hi Demnomo

Maybe "Saved". I find that many "Saved" people aren't sure why they need a Savior. They simply bought into the Jesus thing because it sounded good. I asked my teen Sunday School class "Are you are good person who occaisonally does bad things or a bad person who occaisonally does good things?". They all agreed they were good. If you are good, why do you need a Savior?

If you want a better idea of what I am saying, download this mp3 and give a listen

http://www.wavtechnologies.com/media/mp3/Sermon_20060910.mp3

Another good example is Ray Comfort's famous "Hells Best Kept Secret" and "True and False Conversions" available here

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Pastor%5ERay%5EComfort

You are 100% right. We aren't trained to be critical thinkers and that is why we don't truly understand our need for Salvation.


35 posted on 09/27/2006 7:39:17 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Ingtar
" I sincerely hope this is what those running the camp mean."

As do I. That's probably the case.
36 posted on 09/27/2006 7:46:26 AM PDT by LIConFem (Just opened a new seafood restaurant in Great Britain, called "Squid Pro Quid")
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To: LurkedLongEnough

So what is this? A way to show Christians as 'radical' as Muslims?


37 posted on 09/27/2006 7:48:10 AM PDT by sandbar
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To: LurkedLongEnough

If only they shouted Allah Akbar while strapping bomb belts to themselves...........


38 posted on 09/27/2006 7:49:52 AM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances – and it advances relentlessly – freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: Pete
Any honest interpretation recognizes that she is contrasting Christian camps with Muslim camps.

Generally, I am hte first guy to give someone the benefit of the doubt; that said, it is not deserved in this opinion. Other posters had referenced the Ninja/camoflauge aspects. Then there's the comparison between these kids "laying down their lives for Christ" and the Islamic terrorists in Palastine and Iraq. The whole picture is not of an orthodox, go-out-and-preach-the-gospel message. I've grown up hearing those. This didn't ring that way. The whole picture makes those comments sound frighteningly like what is heard in the madrasssas of Pakistan.

39 posted on 09/27/2006 7:50:27 AM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: Balding_Eagle
And you need to stop being so defensive. If your reading comprehension was so wonderful, you'd have noticed that there were no accusations or condemnations in my post.
40 posted on 09/27/2006 7:51:41 AM PDT by LIConFem (Just opened a new seafood restaurant in Great Britain, called "Squid Pro Quid")
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