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Just-discovered cave could yield new scientific insight
AP on Bakersfield Californian ^ | 9/24/06 | AP

Posted on 09/24/2006 2:37:01 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

A just-unearthed cave formed more than 1 million years ago could yield new insight into the geological history of the American West, according to scientists, who called the discovery a major find.

Four amateur cave explorers uncovered the vast caverns, stretching more than 1,000 feet into a remote mountainside, in August.

Visitors to the cave, dubbed Ursa Minor, described seeing millions of crystals that shimmered like diamonds lodged in its walls. Translucent mineral curtains hung from the ceiling, and a lake possibly 20 feet deep filled one of the cave's five known rooms.

Passages leading into darkness suggested there was still much more to see.

Geologists and cave explorers said although caves are discovered often, it is rare to find one so grand.

"There are things in this cave that could really open windows into our knowledge of geologic history and the formation of caves throughout the West," said Joel Despain, the park's cave manager. "We're just beginning to understand the scientific ramifications of this."

Park officials will not pinpoint the cave's location, saying only that it is in the Kaweah River watershed and will probably never be open to the public.

Explorer Scott McBride with the nonprofit Cave Research Foundation discovered the entrance to Ursa Minor, no bigger than a softball, on Aug. 19.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cave; caves; discovered; glitteringcaves; godsgravesglyphs; helmsdeep; insight; jrrtolkien; kaweah; lordoftherings; scientific; spelunkers; spelunking; yield
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To: thomaswest
Some caves have developed huge green algae blooms and even slime molds, which were never there before.

A lot of that in commercial caves comes from the artificial lighting. Chlorophyl bearing organisms do not ordinarily do well in the dark. Some commercial caves have taken to rotating the lighting times to coincide with the tour groups' progress to slow that down.

41 posted on 09/24/2006 7:38:55 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: the final gentleman

If she be not so to me, what care I how fair she be, eh?


42 posted on 09/24/2006 8:03:07 PM PDT by Ignatz (Click your mouse three times and repeat, "There's no place like 127.0.0.1")
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To: oldfart
"I know many people I would not consider capable of discerning beauty, whose only measure of worth is whether or not money can be made from it. I enjoy the things I can get with money just as much as anyone but I know of things and places that are priceless. Just like the people of CRF, I will never tell anyone of them."
___________________________________________________________

Yeah, sure thing, oldfellow, and I know people who find Andy Warhol's screen prints great art. But poor taste and greed is a staple of the human condition and your self-gratifying coveting of a hidden cave in order to protect it is extremely short sighted. You ain't the World but you are a part of the World and the wonders of the World belong to the sapient people.

By the way, the name of the author of "The Caves Beyond" that you recommended is Bill Halliday who is still kicking and vigorously exploring the lava tubes of Hawaii.
43 posted on 09/24/2006 8:23:27 PM PDT by the final gentleman
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To: Ignatz
"If she be not so to me, what care I how fair she be, eh?"
__________________________________________________________

Right string, Ignatz, wrong yo-yo.

Rather, your Culture determines how fair she be, and Ignatz, if virile, will pursue the socially prescribed fair maiden.

But we digress.

Real men don't cop out and claim the grass is greener.

All in all I think that you missed the analogy of the pearl at the bottom of the sea.
44 posted on 09/24/2006 9:12:27 PM PDT by the final gentleman
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To: the final gentleman

1,000,000


45 posted on 09/25/2006 2:02:29 AM PDT by Dallas59 (Muslims Are Only Guests In Western Countries)
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To: oldfart
Per post #37, perhaps I might be called an "elite." After all, I got off my butt and did things that others would expect to have done for them. If that makes me "elite" I plead 'guilt as charged.'

I am not calling for handicapped ramps into every cave. Those who want to visit should be able to gain entry in a controlled manner. It should not be closed to the public and open only to a chosen few.

46 posted on 09/25/2006 5:34:42 AM PDT by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Mark was here

In that same drainage, the Kaweah, there are a number of caves which have had some truly spectacular formations. One of them, Crystal Cave, is open to the public on a pay-as-you enter system run by the Park Service and has been reasonably well preserved. The others are well off the road and are open to qualified people.
By "qualified" I mean those with the technical expertise and experience to get in the cave and then get out safely. In my younger days I was instrumental in building concrete and steel gates in the entrances of a couple of them. The purpose wasn't necessarily to keep the ordinary citizen from seeing them but to keep that ordinary citizen from killing himself.
A case in point: Church Cave, on the Kings River, has several entrances and is a bit hard to get too so it's ungated. One entrance, the "Cliff Entrance," gets the caver into the guts of the cave quickly via a 140 foot drop. Back in the late 60s or early 70s a group was planning a photographic expedition in the cave and chose to lower the heavy equipment down that drop. To make a long story short, the man at the top lost his footing and fell to the rocks below. Two years later, when leading a group of rangers and sheriffs deputies into the cave to show them the problems involved in cave rescue, the area where his body fell was alive with mold.
Back on the Kaweah river, one of the prettier caves is known as "Lost Soldier Cave." We gated it but the Park Service still permitted tours to "qualified" groups. One such group, Boy Scouts, I believe, shattered formations that had taken eons to form. With that experience, topped by the muddied white flowstone I mentioned in my earlier post, why should I be the source of information which might - no, which WILL cause the destruction of such beauty?
Call me an elitist if you wish. I've been called much worse in the course of my seventy-two years. I still will not reveal the locations of some of the things I've seen.


47 posted on 09/25/2006 8:51:06 AM PDT by oldfart (The most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose.)
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To: oldfart

You definitely sound like an old time caver, probably doing some arm chair caving right now. Glad to hear that you are still out there. And I agree with your postings too.


48 posted on 09/25/2006 8:56:55 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: concentric circles

They better watch out for slestacks!!


49 posted on 09/25/2006 9:06:43 AM PDT by JZelle
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To: the final gentleman
By agreeing with you I missed your point.
I can live with that.
50 posted on 09/25/2006 9:10:03 AM PDT by Ignatz (Click your mouse three times and repeat, "There's no place like 127.0.0.1")
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To: thomaswest
No kidding.

The problem is that there is no balance. When biologists plant lynx and grizzly samples in the Cascades and get the process underway to block off 1.3 million acres to the public, and when the fish and game department fudges fish counts (counting only the "natives" but not the "stocked") to block off all fishing on all west-side rivers for a month and longer, then the power needs to go back to the people. EcoMarxists or EcoNazis are in the process of taking vast territories away from the people, while claiming to be the part of "the people." They use "environmental protection" as their clarion, just as other Leftists use "for the children" for a host of other governmental intrusions.
51 posted on 09/25/2006 2:14:14 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: the final gentleman

"Say oldfellow, who is this "they" that say? Certainly not anyone who thinks."

I did a little research to answer your question. Actually, I did very little research since I just typed the words into Google and let them do the work for me.
The "They" in question amounts to a pretty long list: Aldo Leopold and John Muir more recently but by allowing minor variations in sentence structure we can include William Shakespeare too. While some might take issue with the quality and subject content of their thoughts I doubt many will claim they did not "think."


52 posted on 09/27/2006 2:24:19 PM PDT by oldfart (The most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose.)
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To: WestVirginiaRebel
What's round and goes "Spelunk, spelunk, spelunk?"

A caver about to become a cadaver?

53 posted on 09/27/2006 3:09:22 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: NormsRevenge

BTTT


54 posted on 09/27/2006 3:11:24 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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55 posted on 04/30/2011 8:38:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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