Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Surely they could be sold overseas? This seems like an extreme waste.
1 posted on 09/13/2006 5:03:39 PM PDT by FreedomCalls
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: FreedomCalls
Two seat pilot trainer

http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_service/aircraft/t3A/t3a_firefly.jpg 

2 posted on 09/13/2006 5:07:11 PM PDT by Phsstpok (Often wrong, but never in doubt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

Misleading premise. Imagine what the local scrapyard would be worth if they used the original sticker vehicle prices. The concepts of price and value are frequently interchanged at the whim of the media to bolster whatever the point du jour happens to be.


3 posted on 09/13/2006 5:09:29 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls
The T-3A is the newest version of Slingsby Aviation's T-67 Firefly line of military training aircraft. The prototype began flying in the summer of 1991, and the Air Force accepted delivery in February 1994. Of the total fleet of 110 T-3s which originally cost $32 million, 57 were stationed with the Air Force Academy's 557th Flying Training Squadron in Colorado Springs, with another 53 with the 3rd Flying Training Squadron in Hondo, Texas. Final assembly of the British-made T-3 was done in Hondo by Northrup Grumman.

The Air Education and Training Command at Randolph AFB announced on 12 October 1999 that the T-3A Firefly would be dropped by the Air Force, after having been grounded for more than two years. In 1998 the Air Force intiated the privately run Introductory Flight Training which uses private flight schools to screen pilot candidates. The success of this program persuaded the Air Force to drop the T-3 from service. The T-3 fleet was grounded in July 1997, following an inexplicable engine failure in Colorado. Three instructors and three students were killed in crashes since the plane went into service in 1994. Two crashes were the result of pilot error, while a third occurred because of a stall condition from which the pilot was unable to recover. The predecessor T-41 had no fatal accidents in 30 years of flight, although the T-41 was incapable of performing the aerobatics and spins that were the hallmark of the T-3. The T-3's engine had failed 66 times at takeoff or landing, and the Air Force grounded 57 of the planes on 10 occasions due to problems with the engines, fuel systems and brakes.
4 posted on 09/13/2006 5:09:56 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

Give them to the Iraqis as pipeline surveylance planes.


5 posted on 09/13/2006 5:10:39 PM PDT by Sundog (In a world without Walls or Fences, who needs Windows or Gates?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

What a shame. Seems like they could overcome the liability problem with legal disclaimers of some sort. Ain't that what we pay lawyers for?
I know I would have loved to buy one of the old Jeeps like we had when I was in the National Guard but I was told that they also were sold as scrap because of the rollover problems they supposedly had. Before they sold them, they reportedly ran them all over with some piece of heavy equipment to render them beyond fixing.


6 posted on 09/13/2006 5:12:48 PM PDT by Past Your Eyes (Do what you love and the ridicule will follow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

It's only our money. Not to worry.


7 posted on 09/13/2006 5:31:39 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Victory will never be achieved while defining Conservatism downward, and forsaking it's heritage.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

Why is everybody eatin' up with a bad case of dumb ass?


11 posted on 09/13/2006 5:48:26 PM PDT by ryan71
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

They would sell like hot cakes if sold "as is" and each buyer signed an agreement that the planes were not to be used for flight.


12 posted on 09/13/2006 5:55:03 PM PDT by expatpat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

Give one to me. I can fix it and sell it.

Don't just scrap them.


13 posted on 09/13/2006 5:58:58 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Aeronaut

--X--

Ping.


14 posted on 09/13/2006 6:00:06 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls
There were some problems with the T-3. It is my understanding that the original T-67 that this plane was based off of had a 4 cylinders engine and the T-3 was changed to a 6 cylinders for more power. The higher power was because the Air Force Academy is at about 6000 feet in elevation.

The problems came from the fuel system that was NOT upgraded with the change to the 6.

I am sure there is someone out there with more and better info than I.
16 posted on 09/13/2006 6:06:24 PM PDT by Veloxherc (To go up pull back, to go down pull back all the way.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

so the Air Force is outsourcing its pilot training now? In my mind that's taking things several steps too far.


19 posted on 09/13/2006 6:12:01 PM PDT by kms61
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls; Jet Jaguar

Yeah, Give me one, Ill take it off yer hands fer nuthin.


23 posted on 09/14/2006 4:46:23 AM PDT by Delta 21 ( MKC USCG - ret)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

The whole T-3A program was a waste from the beginning. The program exists for a good reason -- to screen potential officers and see who might be pilot material (and who had better be assigned to fly a desk). They used to do it in Cessna 172s, a popular trainer. (Actually, a version of the 172 with only two seats and a slightly more powerful engine). The 172 is still in production, but the USAF wanted something more "high speed, low drag," especially for their pampered Academy kiddies.

A committee of Air Force officers got the idea that it would be better to have a plane that was more like a modern fighter. So they found this British company that made a trainer with a nice bubble canopy... and then began forcing the doubtful Britons to add more and more to it. Twice the power; a big heavy engine; beef it up for more Gs and more weight.

The result was, not surprizingly, an airplane designed by committee. And with that big, powerful (and heavy) engine way out in the nose, it had ugly spin characteristics, unlike the nimble, glider-derived trainer it descended from.

Finally, the combination of these planes, that the pilots who flew them daily feared for good reason, and the occasional young instructor pilot who had a personal grant of immortality in his pocket, was a bad one and they established that the only effective way to recover from a spin gone flat was to hit the ground... which stops the spin, of course, but also kills the passengers in the plane.

For passengers is what they were once the spin developed and flattened. Passengers on the express elevator to hell.

After the first crash and the second the planes were grounded for a while and the recriminations began. After the third crash the USAF parked the planes and the recriminations went into high gear. I mean, these crashes weren't killing just anybody, but the Academy anointed -- that's serious business.

Those responsible -- all of them blue-suit Air Force officers -- successfully dodged blame, and the poor Brits who didn't want to build the plane like this but were told, "Shut up, we know what we're doing," were on the receiving end of most of the finger pointing.

The bozosity now set climb pitch and METO power. They just lined the planes up on a ramp... didn't cover them... didn't oil or ever inspect them... while they debated for years over what to do with them. Air Force lawyers (you know, military lawyers, the same traitors that brought you 200 Taliban standing in a formation giving a Predator the finger) insisted that the liability was too great to sell these airplanes or even the parts for them. Meanwhile, it became a moot point as the sun, the elements, birds and rodents, and especially corrosion went to work on the carelessly abandoned planes.

Had they removed and pickled the engines alone, they are worth $25-35k each. Each plane has over $30,000 in instruments and radios, on the salvage market. These components also are supposed to be destroyed.

The lawyers who pull Air Force commanders' strings these days feel good about it. After all, it's not their money -- you taxpaying chump.

With characteristic foresight he USAF isn't even keeping one for the museum. They don't want to be reminded of a screw-up this colossal. (Which just about guarantees that they will do it again).

At least one Academy cadet has died in a crash in the new, revised program using civilian planes and instructors. Her instructor flew into a powerline while making a show-off job out of a routine demo flight. What was he doing that low? He died instantly, so he can't tell us. She, on the other hand, took a week to die in indescribable agony.

Like every large organisation, including the other services, the Air Force has many extremely capable people, a few thundering dunderheads, and no institutional ability to tell the two apart. This may be an extreme and easily grasped example of the waste that happens, but it's only one example.

The real amazing thing is that as messed up as the military may be, it's still the most efficient of government agencies. I mean, nobody even reports waste like this at Education or Health and Human Services because everyone understands that every dollar spent on them is wasted. When the military does it, it's news.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F


24 posted on 09/14/2006 8:48:58 AM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (In which article of the Constitution is the Press assigned a role in government? Precisely.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: FreedomCalls

Government at it's best....LOL...Whatta waste.


28 posted on 09/14/2006 12:52:59 PM PDT by Cold Heat (I just analyze it, I did not create the mess...so go pound sand:-))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson