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To: Rokke
The NCA does not dictate tactical level rules of engagement. They don't have the visiblity required to micro-manage at that level in all the theaters we currently operate in.

They do not dictate how such engagements may occur, but they clearly dictate the conditions necessary for such an engagement to occur.

The act of firing on a live target is something that is taken very seriously, and the necessary conditions for this are not left for a field commander (self defense is always permitted). They are clearly defined from above. The problem occurs when the nature of conflict changes. It is difficult to anticipate the impacts of those changes apriori. So if the law of war says we dont fire on funeral precessions, we do not fire on cemetaries, unless we find later that the enemy is using cemetaries in unlawful manner, and then the ROE is modified.

I have no idea if this was the case here. Just wanted to point out that ROE, while not intended to micro-manage the fight, is intended to make sure lower levels do not inadvertantly create a national embaressment, or worse a crisis by mistake.

And occasionally, it has resulted in missed oppportunities.

143 posted on 09/14/2006 10:53:51 AM PDT by Magnum44 (Terrorism is a disease, precise application of superior force is the ONLY cure)
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To: Magnum44
"Just wanted to point out that ROE, while not intended to micro-manage the fight, is intended to make sure lower levels do not inadvertantly create a national embaressment, or worse a crisis by mistake."

I understand your point, and agree with it. But it is being suggested in this thread that the President had a direct role in our decision not to hit whoever is pictured in the subject picture of this thread. To someone who would make such an argument I point out the following:
That might have been the case if Afghanistan were not a combat environment, but it obviously is. In such an environment ROE is prepared and modified at much lower levels than peacetime ROE or ROE written prior to the initiation of hostilities. It must be that way because of the dynamic environment our troops fight in. Prior to invading Iraq our ROE was relatively simple and consisted primarily of direction from the NCA. During that time, unless it was a matter of self-defense, we required a very high level of clearance (not quite NCA) to employ ordinance. During our invasion, that was reduced to requiring a high level of clearance for certain sensitive targets. At various times since then, no high level clearance has been required at all. The same is true in Afghanistan. To suggest that the President or even the NCA currently writes (or could/should even be intimately familiar with) the countless and always evolving theater ROE ignores the work of large numbers of command level staff officers and lawyers whose sole purpose in life is to prepare theater ROE.

With regard to this particular incident, there has been no reason given for not taking out the targets depicted in the released picture. There is media speculation supported by unsourced "Army" officers, but that is all. Clearly, within SWA we are allowed to engage enemy forces in cemeteries. We've done it many times in a variety of scenarios. Rather than blaming the President for a decision that was most likely made by folks with a vast amount of information and outstanding visibility of the entire picture (let's just say more than one poor quality black and white photo still), maybe we should stop knee jerking into hysteria everytime the media baits the hook.

146 posted on 09/14/2006 11:42:08 AM PDT by Rokke
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