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Can’t hit India?Pakistan shy of downgraded F-16s!!
The Telegraph,India ^ | Tuesday, September 12, 2006 | IMTIAZ GUL

Posted on 09/13/2006 3:33:10 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Can’t hit India? No use for Pak - Islamabad shy of F-16 minus Mirage-buster

IMTIAZ GUL

Islamabad, Sept. 11: Pakistan’s long-delayed F-16 purchase from the US has stalled again just before the two sides were to ink the deal as Islamabad has realised that the jets would be useless in combat with the Indian Mirage 2000.

Pakistan was to sign what is called a letter of acceptance with the US to buy at least 18 new F-16 multi-role combat aircraft. But Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officials informed General Pervez Musharraf a week ago that the aircraft did not have the electronic warfare system they want.

Musharraf, who began a three-nation tour today that also takes him to the US, was told that without this system the F-16s would be good only for training and not for combat with the Indian Mirage 2000 or any other Nato (the US-led western military alliance) aircraft.

This means any Nato aircraft attacking the F-16s from beyond visual range could take them out like sitting ducks. The F-16s would not know when they would be locked in the sight of the adversary and would be unable to take evasive action.

With Pakistani officials raising this issue, the visit from Washington — for which President George Bush had nominated a special envoy to participate in the signing ceremony scheduled for September 9 — was called off.

The PAF is to buy at least 44 F-16s from the US under a $5-billion package. They include 18 brand new latest F-16s of C and D version and 26 used jets.

Concerned over the absence of an effective electronic warfare system, Pakistani defence officials had requested the US Secretary Air Force International Affairs, which is the coordinator and supervisor for the project, to grant another extension till December 31 (the previous extension passed off on July 31) to seal the deal.

Musharraf is expected to try to extract some concessions when he meets Bush towards the end of this month.

The two countries have remained engaged in negotiations on F-16s amid concerns expressed by several US Congressmen about possible transfer of technology to China by Pakistan.

China has been closely working with Pakistan on nuclear and defence armament programmes.

“We understand US concerns are largely China-centric,” said a key figure related to the F-16 deal.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; china; f16; india; lockheedmartin; mirage; mirage2000; paf; pakistan
Don't know how accurate the article is,but it's very likely the Pakis are getting toned down stuff.
1 posted on 09/13/2006 3:33:11 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Well done. Musharraf won't be around for ever. Wouldn't want special forces worried about planes when trying to secure Pak nukes before the Taliban got to them first.


2 posted on 09/13/2006 3:35:47 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (War is Peace__Freedom is Slavery__Ignorance is Strength)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
What's the price for selling an F16 to Pakistan?

Bin Ladens head in a box.

3 posted on 09/13/2006 3:36:17 AM PDT by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans. We Vote.)
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To: ChadGore

Err,I thought that there wasn't much of a direct price for Pakistan's F-16s.A good chunk of it is to be covered in US military Aid.


4 posted on 09/13/2006 3:40:29 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: ChadGore
Bin Ladens head in a box.

This sale is too much to bay for Osama bin Laden's head.

Osama bin Laden is isolated in ineffectual. That is enough, for now. If we sold advanced F-16s to the Pakis, the Chinese would be reverse engineering the electronic systems within a fortnight. The Chinese are already developing potent aircraft, but they are way behind in electronic controls and weapons systems. We should not remedy that problem for them.

5 posted on 09/13/2006 3:45:54 AM PDT by gridlock (The 'Pubbies will pick up at least TWO seats in the Senate and FOUR seats in the House in 2006)
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To: gridlock

Not to worry, our F-22 fighters can shoot down F-16s all day without breaking a sweat. I think the practice run figures were something like 2 F-22s shot down about a dozen F-18s in minutes. Hardly challenging.


6 posted on 09/13/2006 5:49:18 AM PDT by Kolb
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To: sukhoi-30mki
....well, if the Paki Air Force is getting new single-seat
F-16C and the two-seat F-16Ds, they must be Block 60
or such aircraft, but I agree; the avionics packages
to be included with these A/C must be "toned down"
equipment, not the "latest and greatest" avionics/ECM/
fire control "goodies" that in many cases probably have
already been retrofitted to U.S. Air Force F-16s.....
in any event, the level of training of the respective
Air Forces' pilots and their proficiency is what will make the difference between living and dying in an air combat situation... not sure which air force (PAF or IAF) has the better training programmes....
7 posted on 09/13/2006 6:05:23 AM PDT by Thunderchief F-105
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To: Thunderchief F-105

They will be Block 50/52s accord to various reports & news releases-the wishlist included Sniper XP pods,JHMCS,AMRAAMS,APG-68 radars etc.It's unlikely whether they could afford the Block 60 package.Anyway a hidden danger is that a large number of technical & combat personnel in the militaries of various "Oil Sheikdoms" like the UAE or Saudi Arabia are Pakistanis.So they would have an idea of the Blk 60.


8 posted on 09/13/2006 6:18:59 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
.....gotcha; thanks....!! I think I read somewhere
that the UAE was getting brand-new "Vipers," too, and
they were "right off the showroom floor," and were
Block 60 aircraft... Again, I am not sure what the
U.S. Gummint allows foreign air forces to purchase as
far as weapons delivery/ECM/Stores Management Systems
packages with the aircraft that they buy.....
interestingly, the U.S. Air Force wanted no more new
F-16s, considering them to be "legacy aircraft," preferring
instead to buy mega-expensive F-22s and F-35s, but the
F-16 series continues to be popular with foreign air
forces (I used to work on Block 30 A/C, powered by the
ultra-reliable General Electric engines... they were
great aircraft, and in the hands of a skillful pilot,
were quite lethal....)
9 posted on 09/13/2006 6:27:00 AM PDT by Thunderchief F-105
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To: Thunderchief F-105

The APG-80 AESA radar on the Blk 60s are not exactly top of the line when you consider those being used by aircraft in US service like the APG-79 or APG-63(V).


10 posted on 09/13/2006 6:33:35 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Tell them to buy a fuzzbuster!


11 posted on 09/13/2006 7:15:32 AM PDT by Cold Heat (I just analyze it, I did not create the mess...so go pound sand:-))
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Give us Zawahiri,Osama, and mullah Omar then we may sell you better stuff. Until then either buy this or go elsewhere.


12 posted on 09/13/2006 7:42:09 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: sukhoi-30mki
"“We understand US concerns are largely China-centric,” said a key figure related to the F-16 deal."

But they are unconcerned about selling weapons to fanatical Muslim Pakistanis. Washington is stupid.
13 posted on 09/13/2006 8:34:20 AM PDT by monday
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To: gridlock
Osama bin Laden is isolated in ineffectual.

Don't count on it. An US Army Captain recently assigned to northern Afghanistan was interviewed this morning. A couple items of note. This Captain had recently completed a tour in Iraq and is finding Afghanistan more dangerous. He stated that in the week since the Pakistani government signed a peace agreement with the tribal areas where bin Laden is thought to be the number of al Qaeda fighters they have encountered has risen from about 20 to 200. He also said Al Qaeda fighters are coming from Iraq to teach bomb making to the Al Qaeda fighters located in the norther Pakistani regions.

Not mentioned in this interview, but well documented by our intelligence service is that the Al Qaeda training camps located in Pakistan is producing most of the terrorists and fighters. Since 9-11 Pakistan has arrested approximately 450 known Al Qaeda members. In the same period the Al Qaeda training camps have turned out up to 50,000 fighters to fight us.

Pakistan will not allow our military forces in Pakistan to destroy the Al Qaeda training camps, search for bin Laden, or combat the re-surging Taliban.
14 posted on 09/13/2006 1:18:59 PM PDT by backtothestreets
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Will the Sniper XL pods still say "made in Israel"?


15 posted on 10/01/2006 10:32:37 PM PDT by rmlew (DeathKlok Rules!)
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To: rmlew

I think you are referring to the Litening pod,which is built by Northrop Grumman for the US military,in partnership with Rafael of Israel,which offers it alone for export to other countries.The Sniper XL is an American system built by Lockheed Martin.


16 posted on 10/01/2006 10:54:32 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Cold Heat

The Pakis would stick on Chinese-made RWRs and ELINT avionics on their stripped down Vipers.


17 posted on 08/07/2009 10:19:17 PM PDT by myknowledge (F-22 Raptor: World's Largest Distributor of Sukhoi parts!)
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