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Pope Invites Muslims to Dialogue, Slams "Holy Wars"(Hooray for the Pope!)
Reuters News Service ^ | Sep 12, 2006 | Philip Pullella and Madeline Chambers

Posted on 09/12/2006 11:52:19 AM PDT by kellynla

REGENSBURG, Germany (Reuters) - Pope Benedict invited Muslims on Tuesday to join a dialogue of cultures based on the premise that the concept of an Islamic "holy war" is unreasonable and against God's nature.

In a major lecture at Regensburg University, where he taught theology between 1969 to 1977, Benedict said Christianity is tightly linked to reason and contrasted this view with those who believe in spreading their faith by the sword.

The 79-year-old Pontiff avoided making a direct criticism of Islam, packaging his comments in a highly complex academic lecture with references ranging from ancient Jewish and Greek thinking to Protestant theology and modern atheism.

In his lecture, the Pope quoted, among others, the 14th century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologos who wrote that Mohammad had brought things "only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The Pope, who used the terms "jihad" and "holy war" in his lecture, added in his own words: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

Benedict several times quoted Emperor Manuel's argument that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable and that acting without reason -- "logos" in the original Greek -- was against God's nature.

At the end of his lecture, the Pope again quoted Manuel and said: "It is to this great 'logos', to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures."

(Excerpt) Read more at today.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; catholic; catholicism; germany; iran; iraq; islam; israel; jihad; moralabsolutes; muslims; pope; terrorism; terrorists; wot
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To: Alouette
"Muslims will agree and join the "dialogue" because it is an opportunity to practice DAWAH and TAQQIYA. All due respect to Pope Benedict, but it is impossible to hold a meaningful "dialogue" with people whose religion tells them it is OK to lie to the infidel."


101 posted on 09/13/2006 5:32:21 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Mid East Ceasefire = Israel ceases but her enemies fire)
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To: Gamecock

Good for you. Restraint is a virtue.


102 posted on 09/13/2006 6:57:49 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: AD from SpringBay
I think he was speaking of the created nature of the human soul, which is free and intelligent, "in the image and likeness of God," and rational.

The pope knows very well that our fallen nature is bleared, smeared, cracked, deformed. That's why we need a Savior and not just a seminar.

103 posted on 09/13/2006 8:08:36 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Torie
"Benedict... also appeared to criticize Protestant churches and contemporary Third World theologians for not stressing the link between faith and reason clearly enough.."

"Appeared to criticize" probably means it was some slight reference, oblique and open to interpretation.

"Some" (no all) Protetant theologians posit an absolute incompatibility betwen faith and reason; "some" Third Worlders are still contaminated with Liberation Theology Marxism, which stresses neither faith nor reason, but oppression and power and the supposedly irresistable forces of history. These may be the ones he'd want to single out.

104 posted on 09/13/2006 8:14:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Where's that great picture from? Wasn't there a mural of Maohammad being dragged into hell in some church in Spain?


105 posted on 09/13/2006 8:18:39 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Robert Drobot
"... the Vicar of Christ sitting across from a muslim is tantamount to dining with Satan."

No, it's tantamount to dining with a sinner.

Keep in mind, please, that Muslims --- like any sinners --- are not demons. They are the demon's captives, whom God wills to rescue, enlighten, and save.

106 posted on 09/13/2006 8:30:26 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Dajjal

You don't seem to give him credit for being a chess player who has more than one move in mind.


107 posted on 09/13/2006 8:33:12 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles

There was an excellent post a few days ago of an article discussing Islam (maybe the Crocker article?) in which the writer observed that the entire Western system is based upon the concept of natural law, even our purely secular systems, and that one of the reasons it is so difficult to install certain types of government or concepts of human life in Muslim countries is that Islam simply does not believe in natural law.

That is, "Allah" is an unpredictable, arbitrary god who is subject to no internal order or reason himself and has not established any natural order or law in the world, either. The only law that exists is the combination of ritual law and criminal law that constitutes sharia; and this is in itself purely arbitrary and exists without referrents of any kind.

My personal feeling is that "Allah" is a demon or Satan, because chaos, nihilism, and prideful isolation are characteristic of Satan as a result of his having rejected God and the order or law of God.


108 posted on 09/13/2006 8:51:48 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius
I just read "Hostage to the Devil" by Malachi Martin, I am beginning to suspect that anybody who memorizes verses of the Koran (assuming the Koran was the product of an intelligent bodiless entity speaking through Mohammad, which Muslims themselves believe) and prays to Allah (meaning, Mohammad's god, an entity historically associated with both lies and murder) may be implicitly consenting to demonic possession.

It's not a conclusion I would reach lightly or apply universally to all Muslims, but it's worrisome when I see Martin's account of how Satan exploits a certain ambiguity in order to gain entrance into souls.

If this is true, BXVI needs to take up Jesus' own recommended weapon for casting out demons. He needs to call the whole Church --- all 1.1 billion of us ---to fast for the spiritual rescue of Muslims.

109 posted on 09/13/2006 10:12:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Pray for one another ...The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. "James 5:16)
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To: livius

I tend to agree with your hunch that "Allah" is a demon. I can't believe that Allah is God because he isn't rational, just, or loving. Frankly, I'm sick of people equating Allah with God. The Muslims believe in something but it sure isn't the God that I worship.


110 posted on 09/13/2006 10:25:54 AM PDT by steadfastconservative
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Yep liberal modernism would probably turn em into a "harless cult" as opposed to the death cult it is currently.

LOL--That church sign reminds me of a couple parishes that shall remain nameless.
111 posted on 09/13/2006 11:42:50 AM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: Frank Sheed

Here is the head of security....

So true.

Thanks Frank! Always learning with my FRiends.


112 posted on 09/13/2006 11:45:58 AM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: GOP Poet
Reiterating his concerns about a modern world "deaf" to God, he warned that other religious cultures saw the West's exclusion of God "as an attack on their most profound convictions".

"A reason which is deaf to the divine and which relegates religion into the realm of subcultures is incapable of entering into the dialogue of cultures," he said.

Please notice that he's criticizing the secularized West, too. He's saying you can't enter into a "dialogue of cultures" if you've yanked out the roots of YOUR OWN culture.

We've trivialized our Judeo-Christian heritage. Instead of being one of the prime sources of education, law, popular custom and public ceremony in this country, it's been banned from the public square and relegated to a private hobby, like collecting beer bottles or raising budgies.

Islam has become salient in the West not because it's a spiritual powerhouse but because the West has insisted on turning itself a spiritual vacuum.

113 posted on 09/13/2006 12:12:09 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Mammalia Primatia Hominidae Homo sapiens. Still working on the "sapiens" part.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
If this is true, BXVI needs to.....call the whole Church --- all 1.1 billion of us - to fast for the spiritual rescue of Muslims.

A very lofty, and utopian, goal, requiring ones' ignorance to also exclude the historic determination of the heathen muslim world to destroy the Roman Catholic Church, and kill every Catholic refusing to adore their false idol, invented by a child predator to support his real life dementia.

The Koran instructs its barbaric adherents to lie without hesitation to any non-muslim. How then can you defend their presence before the Supreme Pontiff of the One True Faith? Further, that heathen book of lies declares it a duty for every muslim - failing to convert an infidel - to cut off his or her head. Surely you are not blind to this barbarism as well?

The heresies of NewChurch include its' zeal to embrace every non-Catholic in the world - while giving legitimacy to their false idols and teachings. The seat of Peter has, as your writings refuse to take into account, blessed the protection of His Church by the sword.

The same satanic demons the Pope wants to placate are the progeny of the barbarian muslims who, from the seventh century to the present day, have chosen to wage 'holy' war of conversion of all of the world, and or die trying.

Today, these savages are wagering their 'holy' war in every part of the world; boasting to kill all who are not willing to convert.

The Bible tells us of Gods' command to smite those who would dare attempt to destroy His chosen. Today, the faithful who embrace His Sacred Dogma and Traditions are His Chosen

Take a hint.

114 posted on 09/13/2006 2:44:48 PM PDT by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Someone on another thread suggested that the Church should pray for the conversion of Muslims - formally, openly and publicly pray, that is - the way we used to pray for the conversion of Russia. I thought that was a great idea.


115 posted on 09/13/2006 6:23:19 PM PDT by livius
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To: steadfastconservative

I'm still stunned by a municipal commeroration of 9/11 I attended here - where the Presbyterian minister closed his prayer "in the name of the God of Mohammed." I think there are a lot of people, well-meaning all, who simply don't get it. I guess they will someday, but their learning process isn't going to be pretty.


116 posted on 09/13/2006 6:26:20 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius
"My personal feeling is that "Allah" is a demon or Satan, because chaos, nihilism, and prideful isolation are characteristic of Satan as a result of his having rejected God and the order or law of God."

A lot of religious experts or whatever say Allah is God. I dont understand that myself. I think Islam is a heretical departure from Christianity by a man who was never a Christian, never baptized. He accepts the old testament prophets and John the Baptist and Jesus but he rejects the divinity of Jesus. He "reformed" Christianity to his own understanding and liking. All that crap about the angel Gabriel is either outright lies or self delusion or some kind of madness or the devil. I don't think we will ever know which but it is total unadulterated bunk.

117 posted on 09/13/2006 10:24:56 PM PDT by Hound of the Baskervilles (A)
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To: Robert Drobot

Remember that Jesus Himself said that some demons could only be cast out by fasting. This is serious--- more serious than fighting here "flesh and blood."


118 posted on 09/14/2006 5:15:25 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: kellynla
I think people should not misunderstand what is exactly quoted, The Pope simply quoted from the history, if this seems a concern to some why not welcome the dialog.
119 posted on 09/14/2006 10:52:55 PM PDT by petro2006
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To: kellynla; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...


120 posted on 09/15/2006 8:30:29 AM PDT by Coleus (Abortion and Euthanasia, Don't Democrats just kill ya!)
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