Posted on 09/11/2006 12:13:03 AM PDT by twinself
Polish Prime Minster Jaroslaw Kaczynski said Sunday he has cleared the air with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and they would meet again in Berlin on Oct. 30.
He told reporters in Helsinki that a short meeting between the two was "very nice" and had allowed him to explain misunderstandings, which he claimed had been created by false media reports.
"We've managed to clarify some issues that were just a matter of misunderstanding. I noticed that the chancellor had learned something from the press that was complete nonsense."
He was referring to media reports that junior coalition partner — the League of Polish Families — was trying to erode rights that guarantee Poland's German minority a seat in parliament. Kaczynski heads the ruling Law and Justice party.
"The press wrote that I announced I would abolish some political rights, especially political rights for the national minorities and it is untrue... In spite of the fact that Poles do not enjoy the same rights in other countries, we will uphold those rights for national minorities in Poland."
Relations between the two nations have soured since Polish President Lech Kaczynski, a nationalist conservative, came to power and Germany began a gas pipeline project with Russia — bypassing Poland — both last year.
Adding to these recent tensions, German organizations representing Germans who were expelled from their Eastern European homelands after World War II have been trying to focus attention on their difficulties.
Kaczynski said he and Merkel mainly discussed future meetings and his October trip to Berlin would largely cover "government consultations with elements of an official visit."
Merkel told him she was one-quarter Polish, he said, but her father had changed his Polish surname 'Kaczmarczyk' to the more German-sounding 'Kasner' at the end of the 1930s.
(Excerpt) Read more at iht.com ...
That's actually funny - Ireland and Poland beeing pumped up to the end with EU funding and what do we have on freep ? Irish and Polish Euroskeptics...
Lol imagine the same in the US Californian Millionairs beeing skeptics of the economic freedom they enjoy in the US - how quaint.
In Poland's case, consider it their "Marshall Plan." Which they got nada of, although they bore the most damage and loss of life of any European country in the war. I seem to recall Germany got a pretty nice deal out of that.
The deal that ensured a middle power to form as a buffer to the soviet union ? I recall it as initiated and wanted by the US - sheer altruism or a clever idea to maximize the benefits for the true winner of WWII the US ?
Actually the comparison is quite nice ... how would you react as a US citizen on german US skeptics after your grandpa helped us out of that brown shit ?
Interestingly enough present Germany is full of US skeptics. Hence EU skeptics in Poland should not surprise you that much. You know, maybe clishes and stereotypes don't lead you anywhere near the truth... ;)
I am absolutely immune to stereotypes.
you cowboy !
;-)
I didn't say the polish are full of prejudices and have a cliche driven view on germans.
It's just you.
Well let me put it this way, the Germans didn't exactly break down doors to give the money back. And I believe The Marshall Plan was the right thing to do, for altruistic as well as geo-political reasons. It's just a shame it wasn't available for the countries that needed it the most.
Well, i.e. I remember a statement of Andrzej Lepper were he said:
Hitler just wanted something good for Germany, he gave people work and there are other things we can learn from him - i.e. body language"
Of course I can not speak any Polisk so I am reliant on German, French and English sources. You can find this statement (in German) on the following German webside:
http://www.freitag.de/2006/20/06200701.php
To verfiy it I googled the terms "Lepper" and "Hitler" and found many Polish websites (I am unable to read) dealing with the issue.
Maybe Poles can say naturally a littlebit more stuff that is not political correct than Germans, but it is sure that Erika Steinbach i.e. would have been forced to leave her chairwomanship of the expelled if she ever have said something comparable.
Speaking about Roman Giertych the following statement I copied out of wikipedia might be interesting:
"The earliest roots of the All-Polish Youth reach back to 1922, but the present incarnation was created on December 2, 1989, and has been affiliated with the League of Polish Families, as its de facto youth wing, since 2001.
The organisation, properly the Academic Union "All-Polish Youth" (Związek Akademicki "Młodzież Wszechpolska"), was founded in 1922 as an ideological youth organisation with a strong nationalist sentiment, and was the largest student organisation in the Second Polish Republic. The Founding Convention of the All-Polish youth took place in March of 1922, with Roman Dmowski being selected honorary chairman.
The term "All-Polish" is intended to represent a desire to unify all Polish lands, and accentuate national ties and the equality of all people of Polish origin regardless of their wealth or social status. In the inter-war period, members of the organisation participated actively in academic life, and became the heads of many student organisations, defending the autonomy of universities against centralising forces in the government and campaigning for lower tuition fees.
They also favoured economically boycotting the Jews, and limiting their access to higher education (numerus clausus). Members of the organisation forced the universities to institute the so-called 'classroom ghettos', where Jewish students would be seated separately from in lecture halls, even though during the Second World War the group rejected Nazi policy towards the Jews, and aided them when possible. During the war, the All-Polish Youth fought with the Home Army and the National Armed Forces. The organisation, secretly recreated in 1943/1944, was again destroyed by the new communist regime.
The modern incarnation of the All-Polish Youth was founded in Poznan; in 1989, on the initiative of Roman Giertych, the current leader of the League of Polish Families (LPR). Continuing the tradition of its precursors, the organisation maintains its aim of raising youth with their ideology, and operates across all of Poland, working with high-school and university students.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Polish_Youth
Congratulations to your wonderful administration...
Es stinkt nach Politik.
I was speaking about the younger history and it is not meant offensive. The countries in the former soviet sphere of control have obviously not the steady voting attitudes compared with the countries where democracy was the gouverning system over the last 50 years. This might have to do with high expectations towards the administrations in those once communist countries and with the extreme change there.
Lol imagine the same in the US Californian Millionairs beeing skeptics of the economic freedom they enjoy in the US - how quaint.
What the Hell are you talking about???? The EU is an emerging socialist dictatorship!!!!
I never took a penny from EUwwwww either, so I owe those bastards nothing!
"Hitler really had good program. If he would not go in the direction of fascism and genocide. He really did good job in Germany. Reduced unemployment, created wide front of jobs etc. Later I don't know what happened with him, who had so big influnce over him that he turned in the direction of genocide. He became probably the worst criminal in the history. "
So he talked about economy, wherever he is right or not is not important. He is not nationalist and such claim is laughable for every Pole who knows something about politics.
Your articles about All_polish Young from wikipedia is very biased and was written by some left wing activist. Beside of that I don't need wikipedia to teach me about the things that I'm observing everyday. This organization is not exactly the same clone of pre-WWII one. Even Giertych himself poited out all of "wrongs" of original All-Polish Youngs in the interview with his ideological enemies "Gazeta Wyborcza". Just recently one of the Polish leftists lost the case in court, he said that APY are fascist oranization and court did not find anything to justify such claim. You Germans need to understand that nazism is not exactly popular in Poland and their parties earned some good portion of votes. Even if some had aby doubts aboput Giertych, he is vise-PM and minister of education and acting not so badly IMO. Of course I don't agree with everything but these are procedural questions...
You did over your gouvernment and over parts of your economy which both are stuffed by European subsidies. Simply google Ireland and subsidies. You will find the following article:
"...The country is a strong supporter of the EU, a natural result of being the largest net recipient per head of Community cash (EU subsidies account for over 5% of Ireland's GDP)..."
http://www.euro-know.org/dictionary/i.html
Just search under "Ireland" in this text. Besides - it is the same thing like elsewhere - if you do not want to be a member in the EU, you simply need enough of your compatriots to convince your administration to leave. As I already said - The EU is no dungeon. Countries who feel uncomfortable with it, can leave if there is a democratic base for it.
Therefore you should not whine around among us Germans who have to pay for 5% of your "extra-cash".
Somehow it is funny. Every time our leaders meet they are talking about the excellent relations between our countries although they stand for antipodal politics. The topics are Iraq-war, European constitution and last but not least the European budget. While in those questions were there is complete German-Polish incomprehension our gouvernments share exactly the same positions: Nobody is going to accept claims of expelled just as nobody will pay reparations to Poland.
On the German side it is a discussion among the society elites like parties, journalists and organisations since the common Germans are not informed or not interested into the issue. It is simply irrelevant to them. Therefore it is wrong to speak about a real Polish-German confrontation. Furthermore there is no real "German" position, since those (in Polish eyes) really "dangerous" Germans are a unimpressive minority and also in a defensive position at home.
In Poland it seem to be different. Many of your politicians use the issue in their election campaigns. Furthermore there is even nationalistic furor among those who fight since many years exactly against this sentiment in your country.
In my eyes the debate in Poland is turning around to positions:
1. The claim that the Germans want to rewrite history that it becomes unclear who started the war. The claim that Germans want to cover the tracks of victims and offenders.
2. The derived claim to stop this development.
The thing is that nobody in Germany wants to rewrite history. Period. Many of your (whining) compatriots and politicians should know that, since they know Germany quite good. Permanent repetition does not make things true but they cause a auto-suggestion to believe obvious BS. Those populous and wrong warnings over a German revisionism of history are oppressive to those who are well meaning of Poland in Germany since they are simply dumb BS. To verify this you just have to look into German newspapers when there is a anniversary of the war. If you can show me something about "Polish agressors" there (exept in the NPD-newspapers - they do not count) I owe you a good bottle of whine from Lake Constance.
The rest of your post, it is just your impression, you see this in that way. Polish people don't need to share this vision with you.
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