Posted on 09/06/2006 9:13:55 AM PDT by Reagan Man
Rudolph Giuliani has repeatedly extended the hand of friendship to Christian conservatives in recent months. But a leading member of a think tank closely associated with the former Mayor has just delivered a powerful jab to the face of the same constituency.
Mr. Giuliani, long viewed with suspicion by the religious right because of his pro-choice, pro-civil-union positions, went so far as to campaign for former Christian Coalition leader Ralph Reed back in May. The move was widely seen as an attempt to curry favor with a voting bloc that will play a crucial role in electing the Republican Presidential candidate in 2008.
But last month, Heather Mac Donalda fellow at the Manhattan Institute, the organization that served as a semi-official brain trust to Mr. Giuliani during his time in Gracie Mansionmounted a brazen frontal assault on the politics of piety. Moreover, she chose Pat Buchanans magazine, The American Conservative, as the unlikely platform from which to do so.
Ms. Mac Donald is a heroine to many in the conservative movement, in part because of her robust attacks on everything from feminist ideology (lunacy) to The New York Times (a national security threat).
She is also, not incidentally, a self-described nonbeliever.
Skeptical conservativesone of the Rights less celebrated subculturesare conservatives because of their skepticism, not in spite of it, she wrote in the Aug. 28 issue of The American Conservative. They ground their ideas in rational thinking and (nonreligious) moral argument. And the conservative movement is crippling itself by leaning too heavily on religion to the exclusion of these temperamentally compatible allies.
The article ignited a firestorm that continues to sweep across conservative opinion journals and Web sites. Pundits including John Podhoretz, Ramesh Ponnuru and Jonah Goldberg have, to varying extents, made their disagreement plain. Philosophy professor (and Opus Dei member) Michael Pakaluk has complained that Ms. Mac Donalds mockery of common religious sensibilities is so unfeeling as to border on the inhuman.
Asked about the timing of her article, Ms. Mac Donald suggested that her exasperation with the religiosity of present-day conservatism had simply reached a boiling point.
Ive just been impatient over the last six years, she told The Observer. I dont remember anything like this current assumption that candidates should talk about their relationship with God. What is that supposed to tell citizens?
There is no suggestion that the Manhattan Institute fellow is doing Mr. Giulianis bidding in making the controversial case for secular conservatism. On the contrary, Ms. Mac Donalds argument is more likely to be met with consternation by allies of the former Mayor, for fear that it could dynamite the bridges to the religious right that they have been so assiduously trying to build.
Baruch College political-science professor Gerald De Maio, who teaches a course on religion and politics, believes that the debates about a Giuliani candidacyand about the issues raised by Ms. Mac Donalds articleare manifestations of the longstanding divide in the G.O.P. between social conservatives and libertarians.
The libertarian wing, he said, is muted. They count for much less than they used to. In many ways, Gerald Ford was the last President to represent that tendency. Now, one of the questions is: Could Rudy Giuliani get the nomination as a social liberal? I cant see how social conservatives in the heartland can back him.
Ms. Mac Donald admiringly told The Observer that the former Mayor never invoked God, but transformed this city in ways that couldnt have been imagined. But she insisted that her main concern wasnt electoral politics. She was, she said, more interested in the need for a sound philosophical basis for conservative argument.
That may sound like a nebulous aim. But it is also an honorable one.
When the President names Jesus Christ as his favorite political philosopher, uses a sly phrase like wonder-working power during a manifestly political occasion like a State of the Union address or invokes God in support of his decisions in Iraq, he seeks, at the minimum, to give his agenda a religious veneer.
The invocation of religion in support of political beliefs is, above all else, a dangerously effective tool for foreclosing debate, discouraging scrutiny and suggesting that ones opponents lack moral fiber.
The battle of ideas should be fought with the weapons of reason and logic alone.
That is not an intrinsically liberal idea. There is much to support in Ms. Mac Donalds contention that conservatism is strong enough to prosper without being propped up by the language of religious piety.
But as Mr. Giuliani already seems to have demonstrated by his actions, many conservatives will never see things that way.
Memo to the creator of that cartoon: The word, "queen" in "drama queen" does not refer to female royalty. Ironically, it refers to one of Gliuliani's larger constituencies.
The biggest problem with this statement is that rational thinking in the US is still grounded in Judeo-Christian morality. While atheists may see atheistic arguments for supporting our way of life there are equally compelling arguments for other ways of life - compelling if less comforting. That the atheist calls his arguments "moral" is evidence that it is based on a religious concept of what is right and what is wrong.
The second biggest problem with this statement is the implication that theists do not ground their ideas in rational thinking. It was theists who insisted on maintaining a right for people to believe whatever they will. It has, therefore, been incumbent upon theists in this country to defend their positions to believers and non-believers of all stripes whenever debating public policy.
Shalom.
Giuliani: "Thank God that George Bush is our president"
Every year Giuliani had an ash Cross on his forehead- all day- on the day that is religiously done by Catholics.
He attended Mass regularly.
Before he went into law he contemplated the Priesthood.
A Giuliani conservative??? Kind of like a Clinton conservative except more to the left.
ping
It's a silly controversy, as Giuliani is not a conservative, nor does he even resemble one.
His left-wing positions on guns and immigration have nothing to do with religion.
And even the same-sex "marriage"/civil union issue is not explicitly religious; it's fundamentally civilizational.
Better start getting used to the idea of Rudy as the nominee - I know it kills a lot of you - but you can always take your toys and stay home.
I love watched people (social conservatives) get exercised when Rudy's name comes up. Reminds me of my 4 year old when she complains about bed time.
Free Republics Own Internal Poll
If Romney, McCain, and Giuliani were the only names on the ballot for the GOP 2008 nomination, whom would you vote for?
Giuliani
45.2%
Romney
28.1%
Sit it out
21.4%
McCain
5.3%
That would have been interesting. 'Father' Rudy could have started his own pro-choice church for abortions on demand. Weekly "how to" screenings of the partial birth abortion procedure.
The holier then thou, sanctification process of future presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani marches forward. Yuck. Pathetic and creepy.
And he'll win without my vote.
I agree 100%. I don't want to vote for people who think they're "more equal" than the rest of us. Rudy Giuliani's life isn't worth an iota more than mine!
The Real Rudy Giuliani:
Read more about Giuliani's liberal positions here and here.
- Pro-abortion - He even opposes banning partial birth murder.
- Anti-2nd Amendment - supports gun grabbing legislation including the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban
- Pro-big government - amassed unprecedented debt as Mayor of NYC
- Pro-radical gay agenda
- Supports gay marriage
- Attended every gay pride parade in NYC while mayor (even one in 1992 that included a NAMBLA contingent of pedophile activists)
- Has received many awards from radical gay groups
- Attends and supports many functions and fund-raisers held by radical gay organizations (even did a cross dressing act at Pride Agenda fund-raiser)- Pro-illegal immigration - said no one in New York City is going to assist the federal government with the enforcement of immigration law, sued Feds in 1997 to be able to ignore immigration law, lost in court, vowed to ignore law anyway
- Endorses liberal Democrat candidates over Republicans - endorsed liberal Dem Mario Cuomo over Republican George Pataki in NY Governor's race
- Ran for NYC Mayor in 1994 on Liberal Party ticket. Appointed Liberal Party State Chair to a Deputy Mayor position. Endorsed 3 times by the Liberal Party for his liberal views.
- Holds many other liberal views
- Republican In Name Only - opposes many major planks of the GOP Platform
Some people want Republicans to ignore his liberalism on almost every issue and, as a distraction, they try to pretend that Rudy is fiscally conservative. Again, his record shows that he isn't fiscally conservative either:
According to an article in The Nation from 2002:
It's now apparent that Giuliani purchased the city's good times partially with borrowed money and left his successor, Mike Bloomberg, holding a bag of debt. New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office. This mismanagement of prosperity is a big part of his legacy. Giuliani left the city's finances in a mess...Here are some things Giuliani did as Mayor that were NOT anywhere near being fiscally conservative:
- New York City went from a $3 billion budget surplus in 1998 to a $4.5 billion deficit after Giuliani left office.
- Added 25,000 government employees patronage hires to the city's payroll after promising to cut the work force.
- Giuliani's borrowing practices increased the city's debt burden by 50 percent.
- Partly because of Giuliani, New York City is now the biggest debtor in the nation outside of the federal government with $42 billion in loans outstanding.
According to the article from The Nation:
During the 1960s Giuliani was a self-described "Robert Kennedy Democrat." He identified with RFK as a liberal Catholic prosecutor. He volunteered for RFK's 1968 presidential campaign while he was a student at NYU Law School. Giuliani also voted for George McGovern in 1972. During the liberal 1960s, he was a liberal.So, to sum that up:But in 1975 Giuliani switched his party registration from Democrat to Independent when he got a job in Gerald Ford's Justice Department, according to his mentor Harold "Ace" Tyler.
On December 8, 1980, Giuliani changed his registration from Independent to Republican. This was one month after Ronald Reagan's election, and just as he was applying for a top job in the Justice Department.
He's a liberal. He's not even in the same building as conservative. He's only a Republican because...and this comes from his own mother, Helen Giuliani:
- Liberal Democrat until 1975
- Worked as volunteer for Democrat Robert F. Kennedy's presidential campaign.
- Voted for liberal George McGovern.
- Liberal Independent from 1975-1980.
- Did not register as a Republican until 1980 and only AFTER Ronald Reagan was elected and because he was applying for a top job in the administration.
"He only became a Republican after he began to get all these jobs from them. He's definitely not a conservative Republican. He thinks he is, but he isn't..."And as John Hawkins put it in an excellent article in Human Events:
Despite all of his charisma and the wonderful leadership he showed after 9/11, Rudy Giuliani is not a Reagan Republican. To the contrary, Giuliani is another Christie Todd Whitman, another Arlen Specter, another Olympia Snowe. He's a throwback to the "bad old days" before Reagan, when the GOP was run by moderate Country Club Republicans who considered conservatives to be extremists. Trying to revive that failed strategy again is likely to lead to a Democratic President in 2008 and numerous setbacks for the Republican Party.
Three liberals and "sit it out" -- 80% chose their favorite liberal, 20% refused the choice.
I think MacDonald was referring to public speaking or her experience of working with Guiliani. She makes a fair point that there are more than enough 'conservatives' who speak religiously but deliver something else.
Integrity and honesty are not always found in churches because God calls sinners to himself.
There are also plenty of "stinking white sepulchres" in politics. What is needed is some old fashioned, God-given rationality!
I don't place much faith in a hypothetical internet poll. Obviously you do. We are 15 months away from the start of the GOP primary season, and over two years out from the general election. NO Republican has announced their intentions for 2008. If Giuliani runs, he will lose in the GOP primaries.
I agree with David Limbaugh`s comments on Sean Hannity'`s radio show yesterday. Social/religious conservatives will not vote for a pro-abortion, pro-PBA candidate. Not to mention Giulaini's staunch liberal position favoring even more gun control and an assault weapons ban. Add to it, Giuliani's positions favoring special rights for homos and illegals that do not exist in the Constitution.
Giuliani will start off having at least half the GOP vote against him in the primaries.
yes to mostly everything above and I doubt it if he could ever win a national election but he did transform NYC from a crap hole to one of the finest and safest larger cities in the world and did keep his cool (unlike chocolate-city nagin) during the worst crisis in American history.
Well, it's supposed to tell citizens that the candidate intends to follow God's law and the principles of liberty and honesty based on that law.
That is, if the candidate is telling the truth. I don't think anyone could convince me to believe candidate Giuliani is telling the truth.
(P.S. the current poll on FR showing a Giuiani lead frightens me.)
Very reasoned comments - thank you for that.
You might be right about the primary process - we will see.
One thing I will say is that whomever the Republicans decide for our nominee - that person will have my support and my vote.
I won't "stay home" regardless of any differences I may have with that person.
I will support our nominee.
This writer sure must think Lincoln was a devil. Just look at how he spoke - in his inaugural addresses and everything....
If they keep it up, maybe we'll get to see if they can win elections without us.
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