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To: BlackElk

The tenth amendment has no bearing upon any "right" of secession.

There is no question of the Federal government to put down insurrections and revolts. There is no power of any state to withdraw from the Union according to Madison. There is also no power that a state retained to attack federal installations and forces. States are EXPLICITLY forbidden from joining together in pacts, compacts or alliances WITHOUT Congressional approval. States are EXPLICITLY forbidden to create armies and navies. Thus, there is plenty within the document to prohibit secession.

Those who broke the law and attacked the Union had their property taken. Nothing wrong about that. Although humans could not truly be property in any case.

Refusal to ratify as RI and NC did initially meant that the new Government would not force them to join. But no one believed those refusals were anything but temporary anomalies. But the National government had essentially ceased to exist so the legal niceties had no relevence in any case. Congress could not even obtain a quorum for months at a time.

Your other ravings are not worthy of response.


50 posted on 09/06/2006 2:12:36 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
1. Words have meaning.

2. Madison's opinions have no relevance in the absence of ambiguity. The Tenth Amendment is not ambiguous.

3. Get some reading lessons and dive into Amendment Ten once again. You will figure it out eventually.

4. After the reading lessons, get around to reading the Articles of Confederation on the subject of what was necessary to amend or replace same.

5. Fort Sumter ceased to be federal territory on the day of South Carolina's secession. On that day, the people of South Carolina ceased to be subject to "union" law and NOTHING in the TEXT of the constitution says otherwise. Further, the later enactment would control over the earlier enactment IF they disagree. The Tenth Amendment, in the event of any conflict, controls over the rigging constitution. If you are a lawyer, you know that. If not, you know it now. Subsequently the "union" responded by murdering many thousands of them and both destroying and stealing their property as punishment for resisting the "union" invasion (as in the other ten Confederate states) Union military trespassers were able to stop trespassing on sovereign territory of South Carolina but failed to do so.

6. Fort Pickens ceased to be federal territory on the day that Florida seceded. Union military trespassers were free to stop trespassing on sovereign territory of Florida.

7. If any of 1-6 make no sense to you, get more reading lessons as necessary until you understand the printed word.

8. If Stonewall Jackson had lived to participate at Gettysburg, Lincoln probably would have had to use his best rhetorical skill to avoid the hangman's noose for presiding over the utterly illegal and unjustified attack on the Confederate States of America, the wanton slaughter of its people and the reckless campaign of property destruction waged by Sherman in his campaign of war crimes to the sea.

9. I am still waiting for you to provide the language of the TEXT of the constitution that prohibits secession in spite of the clear and unambiguous language of the Tenth Amendment. Of course, I shall continue waiting since there is NO SUCH CONSTITUTIONAL TEXT prohibiting secession any more than there is constitutional language to guarantee a right to slaughter unborn children, to require that Bruce and Lance be allowed to "marry" one another whatever mere state laws might provide, much less to adopt children together, to allow the federales to create pervert "rights" or to grant to the federales any sayso whatsoever over gummint misedjamakashun, among many other matters.

10. Lincoln arose from the big government Whig Party which succeeded the long discredited Federalist Party. In his one and only term in Congress, he disgraced himself on the matter of the Mexican War by standing in the well of the House whining away with flapdoodle to the effect that: "This chamber stands knee deep in blood....", blah, blah, blah, a speech ripped off (without attribution) by no other than George McGovern in his insane rants against the efforts of our government to prevent communist control of Vietnam. Then, twelve years or so later, elected with 39% of the vote in a four-way race and by a majority of electoral college votes, Lincoln eagerly dived into presiding over the greatest martial bloodbath in American history.

11. One may argue (as Lincoln did not) that Lincoln was waging war to end slavery or one may argue (as Lincoln did not) that he was waging war to uphold protective tariffs or one may argue (as Lincoln did to the New York Herald Tribune) that Lincoln waged war to "preserve the union" which no longer included eleven departed states regardless of the outcome as to slavery.

12. Of course, if he was "preserving" the union, why did the eleven states have to be readmitted to a union that Lincoln (and you) argued they could not leave? How could those states be required to ratify any constitutional amendments (13, 14 and 15) as a "condition" of "readmission" to the union which they supposedly could not leave? If he was "preserving" the union, how did he justify the naval blockade when international law does not allow the blockade of a nation's own ports? If, understandably, you are as actually eager to look for constitutional text which prohibits secession rights guaranteed by the plain and unambiguous language of Amendment Ten as O. J. Simpson is to find Nicole's actual killer on golf courses throughout the world, chew on those three questions. 13. Defeating communism was a real war against slavery on a world wide level. Reagan won. Lincoln would have smooched their red derrieres. He resisted fighting Santa Ana. (There may have been respectable reasons to resist that but Lincoln's reasons were nothing more than the usual anti-war drivel more common in our own age).

14. Republicans should recognize that Lincoln has little to do with the modern Republican Party and much to do with modern Demonrat heresies; that Jefferson and Jackson underlie Republicanism today as Hamilton and Lincoln underlie the centralized power and taxmania that are the false gods of the Demonrats.

15. It was also the judicial tyranny of Federalist "dead hand of the past" Chief Justice John Marshall that planted the time bomb that SCOTUS has become by inventing out of whole cloth the SCOTUS "power" to overturn legislation as "unconstitutional."

16. Jefferson: "That government governs best which governs least." Suggesting: Best of all....not at all????? The failure to attain quorums simply illustrates the reason for quorum rules. On those rare occasions when legislation was necessary, quorums could be attained.

17. Given that you attempt in vain to defend the likes of Lincoln on a conservative website, I am supposed to care as to your opinions of my posts because.........??????

18. Another question: Are you a product of gummint skewels as is suggested by your historical analysis or whatever that is??????

19. Take your screenname as your guideline and you will stop embarassing yourself.

54 posted on 09/07/2006 9:09:29 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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