Some Boat Owners With Gunky Motors Sing Ethanol Blues

Wall Street Journal ^ | September 2, 2006 | Robert Tomsho

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

EAST HAMPTON, N.Y. -- Proponents of ethanol see it as a fuel additive that can relieve the nation's energy woes. Pleasure boaters like Walter Kaprielian say they need it like a hole in the hull.

Mr. Kaprielian's 1969 boat was made in Miami by Bertram Yacht, whose sturdy older vessels have a devoted following. But the 20-footer, a beamy craft with a small cabin, has had all sorts of things go wrong with it since marinas here began selling nothing but ethanol-blended gasoline two years ago.

The boat has spent the summer sitting in a repair yard while its owner thinks about expensive fixes such as a new $25,000 motor. "I get depressed just looking at it," says the 72-year-old, who sometimes seeks solace online, where a lot of boat owners are singing the ethanol blues. Boaters blame the blend for unpredictable stall-outs and a ruinous goo that brings some motors to a grinding halt.

"Take heed, folks, this stuff is nasty in outboards," one Virginia angler warned recently in a bass-fishing forum. On a site for Bertram owners, a New Yorker lamented leaving an article about ethanol problems out where his wife found it. Now "she wants to sell the boat," he wrote.

This past spring, Eric Koch, of Old Saybrook, Conn., did seek a buyer for the 34-foot boat he had spent nearly $40,000 to buy and restore. After ethanol problems set in, the kitchen designer ended up letting it go for $9,000. "It was time to cut some losses," he says.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

My 2002 Chevy Cavalier seems to run fine on 10% blend, apart from the small subtraction in mileage, of course.

[ASOC]

Well, so would many - but thanks to the EPA, you have no choice -- well, AvGas maybe, but that 110 can kill your Pinto ss fast as anything else....

[JOE6PAK]

My Uncle Thomas had a Mahogany boat in NJ back in the 50s. It used some kind of special fuel. He would tell me it was "the perfect mix". I have no idea what it was.

Ahhhh. Back in the day.

[Kozak]

Well, so would many - but thanks to the EPA,

The EPA is the straw man. The REAL reson is the farm lobby and the green ADM has spread around DC....

[RJS1950]

Some newer mowers will do alright, but in older mowers the tubes and cylinder can become lacquered and the mower becomes hard to start. I learned this a number of years ago--the hard way, am careful about what I put into the mowers etc, and have had no further problems.

[RJS1950]

I'm not sure about Idaho, but the others seem to be primarily Dem states, which says something about the agenda of only allowing ethanol blends.

[timer]

There is another solution to gunk in engines : diluent lithium oil. It undergoes honest-to-god FUSION in the firing chamber. The upper tail of the Boltzman curve gives the H1 proton just enough energy to overcome the coulomb repulsive force of the Li7 nucleus and fuse into a Be8 nucleus which immediately decays into 2 He4 nuclei(alpha particles). The energy thus released, by E=mc^2, gives a million degree temperature regime within the 1500 degree regime of CxHx burning. That in turn cleans out the gunk in cylinders and only He4 is added to the exhaust. In cars/trucks it results in 10%-15% greater mileage. It was first used in boiler jets and an alpha detector always gets alpha particles right after you burn this lithium diluent oil, proof positive that FUSION is really happening.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

I think this is a newer one, fortunately.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Does the combustion process leave your city intact?

[Fred Hayek]

Tim Pawlenty had signed into law earlier this year a requirement that motor fuel be 20% ethanol. Pawlenty is a G.D. RINO. After that signature I have NO respect whatsoever for the State of Minnesota.

[daviddennis]

The article itself mentions this. If you're not a WSJ subscriber, here are key paragraphs:

Ethanol's most excruciating headaches are reserved for the owners of vintage boats, made by Bertram and a few other manufacturers, that came with fiberglass fuel tanks, once a high-end feature thought to last a lifetime. Most boats now are manufactured with gas tanks made of aluminum, steel or polyethylene. The latest fiberglass tanks are made of ethanol-resistant materials.

The 10% ethanol blend can leach the resin right out of fiberglass tanks manufactured before 1985 or so -- as many as 15,000 of which are still said to be in use on boats. The resulting chemical brew can coat a motor's innards with a crippling black gunk that hardens after a motor cools.

I always wanted to own a Bertram - they are probably the best boats ever built, and since they don't make anything under 39' (and half a million dollars) nowadays, old models are prized. So this article actually is very sad news for the likes of me.

An interesting article which covers the desirability of the old boats for those unfamiliar with them.

D

[kinoxi]

Thank you.
:)

[kinoxi]

I didn't see the quote you provided.

[lesser_satan]

Just make sure you DO SOMETHING about it, like getting EVERYBODY YOU KNOW to vote for Sue Jeffers in the primary.

[btcusn]

25000 for an engine!!!!!
Is he NUTS??
Jack

[norwaypinesavage]

Several years ago, the EPA began requiring "oxygenated" fuels. The industry responded by adding MBTE to fuels. MBTE turned out to be a pollutant of wells and has been banned. In order to meet the "oxygenation" requirement, refiners began adding small amounts of ethanol to all fuels. This actually caused an ethanol shortage in the US and we are importing ethanol from Brazil. Ethanol causes several problems in boats. 1. It absorbs water, causing more corrosion in the fuel system. 2. It evaporates, reducing the octane of the fuel, resulting in spark knock if the fuel gets old. 3. It deteriorates rubber parts in the fuel system if it was not designed for ethanol. That being said, I think the biggest problem for old boat engines is unleaded fuel. It causes valve recession, resulting in failure of the heads, and costly engine repairs.

[Jeff Chandler]

If gasoline with 10% ethanol is introduced for the first time into an older engine, it will probably require a couple fuel filter changes.

[ME-262]

I read the Consumer Reports story also. I read that Ethanol greatly reduces unwanted emissions. Ethanol is renewable while fossil fuels are being used up. The supply of ethanol is increasing every day. Ethanol is purchased from hardworking Americans not Wahhabis. The reason ethanol prices are high right now is just because the price of gasoline is high and it is in demand as a gasoline substitute. With high prices American Ethanol producers are able to pay off new ethanol plants in just one or two seasons. I'm happy to see my fellow countrymen getting rich and not some wife beating Saudi! Although ethanol is not the full and final fuel for all applications, I'm amazed at the number of folks who always charge out to fight progress when it first happens. Honestly, If ethanol is not a good solution a better solution will present itself in due time. Perhaps a blend of butanol, ethanol, and gasoline would work better. The most sure thing however is that the same knuckleheads who are fighting progress now will also fight progress then. Just as those of us who try to embrace progress now will also be pushing for progress in the future.

[jim_trent]

Ethanol blend gas (15% alcohol, 85% gasoline) has been cheaper in my state than straight gas for over 15 years (it has to do with tax breaks the legislature enacted to encourage it). I have used it almost exclusively during that time. I have never had any unusual problems with any of my vehicles that had any possible tie to ethanol. My father refused to use it because of stories he heard.

Maybe when they change it on 85% ethanol, it will be different, but I will wait and see.

[ME-262]

I've run up to 40% ethanol in my 96 Chevy Impala SS that is only warranted for 10% ethanol without any discernible problems. At around 50-70% ethanol the throttle response craps out and the engine occasionally stalls.
I used to use Berrymans B-12 Chemtool to clean my fuel injection system and sensors if the engine ran funny or the check engine light came on. Then someone mentioned adding about 5 gallons of E-85 to about 7 gallons of regular as being a cheaper and faster way to clean my engine and fuel system. It works great. I've been driving the last 5 or 6 years with ethanol levels at 10% and above and have had no problems.