Oremus+
Posted on 09/01/2006 4:47:00 AM PDT by Caleb1411
Please understand that this is in no way a criticism of you, but I think the entire "I wouldn't do it, but I also wouldn't try to stop somebody else from doing it" attitude is bullsh*t. As you said, you eventually came to see that it was murder and it was wrong. However, it was ALWAYS murder. Many have succumbed to the moral relativism/libertarian nonsense that "it's none of my business what somebody else does." However, if you saw somebody aiming a gun at somebody else and they were about to kill them, to pretend it's none of your business is morally wrong.
Oremus+
Seeing the reality...
http://www.cbrinfo.org/
...is also pretty persuasive--- although I must say that though I could watch-- my heart sagging --- the 2 1/2 minutes of "Choice Blues, Chapter 1," I couldn't stand more than a few moment of "Chapter 2."
That was a factor in my prolife conversion, by the way. I was a strongly anti-war high school kid, back in the Vietnam era. Eventually, after a couple of years of firmly and obstinately closing my eyes, I couldn't avoid the similarity between the pictures from My Lai, and abortion.
The logic of "rights" and so forth had seemed to be endlessly debatable, a contest of verbal cleverness. (It's not really, but that's how my debate-cynical adolescent mind had perceived it.) It was the obvious suffering and torment of the mangled bodies that moved me to take it beyond verbal volleying and realize the bloody horror of it all.
Through conversations with the girls grandmother, it turns out that when the girl's mother found out she was pregnant, she threw her in the car and drove her to the local clinic.
Turns out she was on week past the latest date that an abortion could be performed, so the clinic "apologized" and sent them away.
Hard to believe that my beautiful now 7 year-old daughter was 1 week away from being called medical waste.
Thank God for saving your precious child. He must have important plans for her.
I agree with the author's premise that many people become pro-life when they are faced with having to actually think about what abortion is. I think many folks adopt a "None of my business" attitude because they don't want to actually think about abortion. I can say that at the time, I thought it was a wrong thing to do, but I didn't think it was murder. Clearly, if I had thought it was murder I would not have had the "it's not my business" attitude!
Actually, I must say it is fascinating being a former Liberal. It's an out-of-body experience to look back on what I was like back then. I don't even recognize the me that was most of the time. I do remember being angry, depressed, unhappy. I always felt persecuted and down-trodden and I had so much hate in my heart. I look back on the me that was and use that person to explain the Liberal ideology to other conservatives sometimes. And I use it to try and understand (or at least predict) my folks when I talk to them.
It is despicable to lump libertarians into this in order to further your obsession against freedom loving people.
I am a pro life libertarian and there are millions of us. It's clear that you are a moral relativist, willing to purposely bear false witness to enjoy the cheap shot.
Baptist Ping
I used to be pro-choice in my views.
I guess there must have been a point where I started to think about some of the moral implications of abortion, although I don't remember the magic point when that happened. I guess I just got to the point where I regarded the practice as evil and wanted nothing to do with it.
I also think my Catholic friends had some influence on me. That was also a major factor in my choosing a church when I finally found enough sense to open my mind and heart to His grace. I just noticed over time that the people I liked and cared about were almost always Catholics and pro-life. Once I finally got around to reading some of the underlying pro-life arguments, they made logical sense to me.
We like to think so...
Is it or is it not true that the attitude of many libertarians on the subject of abortion is:
"it's none of my business what somebody else does"
Depends on the libertarian. Much the same way as it depends on the conservative or liberal. I've noticed that people of all political stripes have this amazing ability to rationalize their views and (mis)behavior as they see necessary. Including conservatives.
I sense that you're looking for witches amongst the libertarian population to exorciate in much the same way that many look for witches amongst the democrat population to exorciate. I think that's self-defeating and counterproductive. Different people see things differently regardless of the political label they may be wearing.
Many? How many is many?
You took an off topic cheap shot.
People who believe in the rights of individuals differ about what an individual human being is. As do others.
God fearing people of whatever political outlook know that an individual's life on this world begins at conception. That individual has rights, and murdering them violates that right.
There are people on this site who claim they are conservatives, but really aren't. There are people who claim they are libertarians, but really aren't.
You would do well to debate real libertarians on real differences you have with them instead of picking a pro life thread to spread misconceptions about others.
I have two grandchildren, one of them will be born in about eight months. I pray they grow up to embrace freedom, individual liberty, personal responsibility and oppose balonyism like that which has been posted here.
What you say is true; however, I believe that the established Libertarian Party platform has been pro-abortion for some time.
There are people with agendas who look for openings all day everyday on this site to insert it into topics no matter how far fetched or off topic. This person has made another huge reach to introduce the hatred of freedom loving people into a thread about how people came to their senses about precious children sent to this earth by God.
Freedom scares the hell out authoritarians.
But you have succeeded in your first goal, changing the subject from the thread to your personal obsession.
Like I said in my first post,,despicable.
Fine, we'll just take some of the Libertarian Party's views on abortion:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Libertarian_Party_Abortion.htm
http://users.cwnet.com/jackhick/wraa.htm
http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/Abortion.htm
http://www.alf.org/papers/abortion.shtml
Republican----republican
Democrat------democrat
Libertarian----libertarian
authoritarian=authoritarian
despicable off topic lies=despicable off topic lies
And ad hominem attacks are still a method to avoid answering a question when you realize that the answer is not the one you're looking for.
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