Young and Pious: A Rock & Roll Story (A Christian Music Story)

How do you know Paul would agree with using this kind of music?

19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

BINGO !

To shoot... you score.

That is the only way to tell those who are critical when they ask "how would you know"... dont reply... POST the Word!

Good job.

Too bad you take our comments too personally. Protesteth too much?

I've seen all sorts of "praise and worship" music in person and on TV, and none of it is as good or inspiring as some good Bach and an organ, IMO.

Good post. Its very interesting ... there is no place in most churches today for people who are not spiritually uplifted by contemporary worship music. I just spoke to someone (new Christian) last week who wants to find a church that is vibrant but not contemporary-music centered. Such churches do not exist. I guess not all lost sheep are created equal (?)

I love Christian music - Darlene Zschech is my favorite

It's always a hoot to hear the same old musical rust is still squeeking.

.....I travel alot with some of the Integrity and International Worship Institute folks. I forget there are still people that think this way.

Keep doing what you're doing.

blessings!

I have no idea what you are talking about. None.

Bach wrote fantastic music.......but Bach on an organ in church? Snoooooooooooooooooooooze...............

You have no idea what Im talking about?

??

Third Day is awesome!

Aaron Schust is great...my daughter (9yrs) loves Zoe Girl.

When I grew up in the 70's, christian music was hard to find and often poorly done. I love having a real alternative.

bump for my favorite radio station...KLRC springdale arkansas.

No. Try again.

No. Try again.

You're a musician ... I'm a musician .....

Figured [perhaps I'm just crazy] we may have a molecule or two in common on this subject.

A lot of contemporary Christian music (which mostly uses a rock beat) is justified and rationalized because the proponents claim they are becoming MORE focused of the Lord and less on themselves.

One elderly believer in a church I used to attend confided that he hated how the music in the church had been hijacked by the rock proponents. Someone else pointed out it seems to be all about "I, I, I" and "me, me, me".

I never really thought about it before. I began to pay attention. If you look at traditional Christian music, the focus is on Jesus. Compare that to even some of the softer contemporary Christian music, such as Open the Eyes of My Heart:

Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
Open the eyes of my heart
I want to see you, I want to see you

"I" and "me" are used four times - just as many as references to the Lord.

Or just randomly select a song. I went to www.todayschristianmusic.com and picked the first artist (Audio Adrenaline) and this song came up: Leaving Ninety-nine. Here are the lyrics:

I'm lost and broken, all alone on this road
the wheels keep turnin', but the feelin' is gone
when I fear I'm on my own
You remind me I am not alone
when You said

I'd leave ninety-nine
leave them all behind
to find you
for you alone
I'd leave ninety-nine
leave them all behind
to find you

it's dark and lonely and the path is unclear
can't move my feet because I'm frozen in fear
then you say, "My child, my child -
I am always here, I'm by your side"

I'd leave ninety-nine
leave them all behind
to find you
for you alone
I'd leave ninety-nine
leave them all behind
to find you

you're never too far down
I promise you'll be found
I'll reach into the mud and mirely clay
pursue you to the end
like a faithful friend
nothing in this world can keep me away

I'd leave ninety-nine
leave them all behind
to find you
for you alone
I'd leave ninety-nine
leave them all behind
to find you

This is just a random pick. I have never heard the song. I am just assuming it is played with a rock beat because nearly all contemporary Christian music is. The point is that the emotional focus is on the singer not the Lord. "I, me, my" are used repetitively in this example six times in the first stanza, twice in the second. In the chorus and third verse, the speaker is reversed as this is supposed to be Jesus speaking. So here "you" refers to the singer. It is used three times each in both the last verse and in the chorus. So tally it up. In the course of this song, the singer refers to himself 20 times and to the Lord 16 times (using a pronoun). It is also significant that "God", "Jesus", and "Lord" are absent from the song. The fact He is being referenced is inside information. The audience only knows this if they are already familiar with what the Bible says. This ambiguity is common in contemporary Christian music.

2 Corinthians 3:12-13a Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face."

I am not picking on this song or artist. It is a random example. I can go down the list and find song after song is the same. While claiming to be songs about the Lord or to the Lord, the singer is a prominent part of the subject matter.

Is it wrong for a song to reference the singer? Of course not. But when the claim is made that we just want to "forget ourselves and concentrate on Him and worship Him" I suggest that traditional hymns have far less focus on "me, me, me" and "I, I, I".

Do I need to get over myself? Perhaps. And perhaps contemporary Christian music is not the best remedy.

"The term 'Christian rock' was penned by a non-believer making an attempt to relate her opinion on a style of music she is foreign to."

Rock music can be defined. In all likelihood, a Rolling Stones news reporter is able to recognize a rock beat when she hears it.

Music can be defined as the rise and fall of pitch through time. It is made up of melody, harmony and rhythm. Some music theorists add timbre as a separate element, while others consider it an aspect of pitch and therefore of melody.

The difference between noise and sound is that noise is chaotic and sound is distinguished by the listener from random noise. The difference between sound and music is that the listener hears it as music. That is, there is a physiological process which converts the sounds in the ear into chemical messages received by the brain. So the formation of music actually occurs inside the hearers.

God has made music within nature, such as the songs of birds. Natural music is melodious and not beat driven.

Within music theory, rhythm coincides with the measures of sheet music. In classical styles the ordinary emphasis is on the first beat of the measure. Occasionally an offbeat is accentuated. This is called syncopation. It is like punctuation in writing.

Rock music, in its many different forms and styles, has one common element. It is the continual emphasis of the back beat. This enslaves the other parts of the music (if they exist) so that they are driven by the beat. The beat dominates rock music.

"They hook the kids in with music that relates to them and their generation then use the opportunity to introduce them to the kingdom."

Compare with the way God has chosen to save the lost:

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

"there is as much a dog and pony show AFTER the musicians leave the platform and the professional speaker takes the STAGE. Just as much ear tickling and emotion twisting."

And that needs to stop too. It does not excuse the ear tickling of the Christian rock movement.

"I believe the music God wants is off the written page. Beat, melody and style take a back seat to the spirit behind the music."

God wants to write His laws on our hearts. But it is our actions which express His law being on our heart. The Bible repeatedly condemns saying one thing (something true) but having a life that is inconsistent. God reserved the longest book of the Bible for written music. The writing of it does not in any way diminish it from being Spirit led. The beat, melody and style are how music is expressed, whether it is sensual or spiritual. These are how music is conveyed from a singer or the player of an instrument to the listener.

Music is the expression of feeling and is designed to convey those feelings directly to the listeners emotions.

"He asks us to sing ........ period."

Not period. Those who worship, must worship in spirit and in truth. Those who sing must sing with their spirit and with their understanding also. (John 4:23-24, 1 Corinthians 14:15)

"What I get offended by is someone telling a young person they cannot sing to God within their culture. If it helps them connect to heaven who are we to critize it?"

We all get offended when we are told what we think or say or do is wrong. John 7:7 says, "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." The "culture" of the world is offensive to God. Luke 16:15 says, "that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God." And Ephesians 2:2 says, "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

the closest Biblical term to the idea of culture is the term "world". We are told not to love the world or become conformed to it. (1 John 2:15, Romans 12:2)

There are many "cultural" things which people think help them connect to God. They are no substitute for the only true way to connect to God. John 14:6 says, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Would you apply the same logic to those who claim to be Christians and promote what they call "free love"? The Children of God movement uses sex as a tool of evangelism. It is plain in scripture that fornication is something which must be repented of when coming to Christ. Ephesians 5:5 says, "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

Likewise, how can something which is to be forsaken and repented of become an authorized tool for spiritual growth and reaching the lost?

Titus 2:11-12 says, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world."

Galations 5:19-21 says, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

This article describes something being done in the name of Christ which is lascivious and revelling or at least, such like. Read what the author observed about the way girls dressed:

SK: "Some of the girls...man, when you go to Creation, you're like, 'Dang, how do these boys focus on the message?' The Christian girls are hot and they don't mind showing it either."

James 3:15 and 17 says, "This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish... But the wisdom that is from above is first pure..."

"if hearing 'Just As I Am' 400 times a year is a stumbling block to me?"

That is wrong too. Leaders should strive to "increase in knowledge and all discernment" so they can "approve things that are excellent" and "be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ". (Philippians 1:9-11)

" God does not hear as we do. He doesn't even care if we can sing well or sound like a screeching owl"

You are right about this. God looks at the heart. Music is art and expression of the heart. It is not always easy to quantify. That means it requires the exercise of greater discernment BECAUSE it is, as you said, very subjective.

The maturity of someone singing has an important role in evaluating the music. If a child brings a picture to their parents which says "I love you", they do not measure its value by comparing it artistically to Picasso. On the other hand, it does not belong in an art gallery and ought to bring a disappointing price at a public auction. That does not diminish its value. However, if a grown child refuses to work and continues to depend on his parents and disregards the rules of the house, if this "child" gave a similar, unskilled drawing to his parents, it might reasonably elicit a quite different response.

It is very important that those who take leadership roles in music have maturity and the discernment that goes with it, to be able to distinguish between carnal and spiritual music, and to protect the congregation from what is harmful.

Discernment is uniquely important for anyone who has a music ministry. (1 Chronicles 15:22 says, "And Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was for song: he instructed about the song, because he was skilful." The word for skilful in Hebrew is biyn which means to have discernment. God chose this qualification through David rather than skill, yada`, which means talent or learned know how.)

That has been my observation. I moved a few years ago and began attending a church near where I now live. They do not teach about why they use melody led music, but that is what they do in practice.

The church I formerly attended had a mixture of traditional and contemporary music, and the young people who had been given leadership roles in music seemed to move progressively more and more toward having everything with a rock beat.

I never voiced my objections except for the one discussion I mentioned earlier, and it was after attending for more than a year. I noticed that the young people who promoted the rock music (some have their own contemporary Christian band) seemed to always walk around with a chip on their shoulder. They always avoided speaking to me (and I am not significantly different in age than most of them). The only time they would ever speak to anyone not in their clique was if you went right up and got in their way and greeted them. These are people leading music! I can only imagine how this would effect a new believer or an unbeliever if they were to experience this rudeness.

My experience with Christian rock is that its proponents are more interested in making converts to it and to make disciples of it, than they are in winning people to Christ and making them His disciples.

I will say that I know some godly believers who do listen to some contemporary music. These tend to be casual listeners rather than promoters of it. In my opinion, they are godly IN SPITE of the music rather than because of it. We all have blind spots or even besetting sins which hinder us from being as effective as possible in serving God.

What is frustrating is, as you point out, it is very difficult to find a doctrinally sound church which has not been infected by the contemporary music infatuation.

Family Force 5

"softer contemporary Christian music, such as Open the Eyes of My Heart"

My former band did a version of Open the Eyes that would knock paint off the walls.

(of course it was only used for certain youth oriented settings)

You are getting past rediculous now.

Ohfercryinoutloud.

Look........you so miss the point, it's unbelievable. I have no doubt you are a sincere and passionate believer. I also have no doubt you haven't the slightest understanding of music or contemporary praise and worship.

I've been playing guitar since 1969 and have been a lead guitarist in evangelical churches for over a decade, so I think I'm qualified to address the topic.

Let me first tell you what I tell my praise and worship team members (I'm not the worship leader, but as A) the lead guitarist and B) pretty much the oldest guy on the team, they listen to me...): I tell them that if we do our jobs properly, the congregants won't remember a single thing we played. We are there to usher them in; to help them enter into worship of the Lord. I don't stand on that stage several times a week......every week.......for years......free.......giving up untold hours of rehearsals and performances for my ego. If I wanted to feed my ego while slinging my axe, I'd be in some metal band downtown (and I have the chops to do it).

I'll never be an evangelist, preacher, or missionary. I know my limitations. However, God gave me a certain gift, and I choose to use it to glorify Him. His Son took a bullet for me 2000 years ago and I owe Him my life. This is how I pay Him back (even though He doesn't demand or even ask that of us). I do it because I choose to give to Him, period. In short.......I'm playing to an audience of one, when you get down to it.

Contemporary Christian music is based heavily upon the evangelical movement that emphasizes a personal relationship with God; with the Lord. It's an intensely personal and VERY real relationship. The use of "first person" so much in such contemporary songs reflects this; you sooooooo missed the point. On the other hand, mainstream, denominational churches are withering on the vine and dying out by the thousands because they just don't get it.

Stand, get your hymnal, and sing along with the old lady on the organ or piano........right. Been there, done that. Tell me how worshipful you feel while doing it or afterward.

Then come see a service like ours....or any thousands of churches around the world like ours.......and YOU tell me the difference. You are looking for incredibly picky little arguments that attempt to say we do this because we're a bunch of self-centered spoiled children; while the noses-in-the-air traditionalists turn their backs, face empty pews, and sing old hymms (that were VERY often based upon popular music of their day.......including drinking songs; fact.....look it up).

No thanks. I can praise the Lord with a band that includes three electric guitars, acoustic guitar, drums, two or three keyboards, flutes, trumpet, percussion, and a group of phenomenal singers. We're loud and proud of it.

We have the most powerful message on this earth......the message of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Lord.....and I'll be damned if I'll play it like some wimp. I crank it up, wail it out to whoever will listen....and hit them square in the chest with the POWER of Jesus' message. He wasn't a wimp......and neither will my music for Him ever be.

By the way.....as a result.......our church is growing so fast it's unbelievable and we're seeing people saved by the hundreds ...hundreds......every month. Guess that doesn't matter to the 'purists'; seeing people saved just doesn't count to them, I suppose.

I just finished reading your post #79, and was quite impressed...thanks for your testimony in this matter...it always seems to me, that music praising the Lord, should be joyous...it sounds like in your church, joyous music is what the people hear...

Its quite unfortunate, that some others feel that this music, is nothing but a front for the egos of the ones providing the music...

I would say, that your direct testimony about this, based on your own years of experience, is quite a valuable and inspiring testimony...others can sit back and criticize...you however, are doing....