Posted on 08/27/2006 12:41:00 AM PDT by Crazieman
Per Fox News
Excellent points. Jesus directed Judas to betray him too, but he didn't repent like Peter did.
Nope...Gloria Gaynor.
Dear Cinnamon,
For heaven's sake (literally) they didn't CONVERT. Wasn't that rather obvious, even before their rescue? Are you kidding? They said what they had to in order to survive. And, were you privvy to their potential inner communications with God before or during their parroted words? I thought not. But even so, you feel they are not "good" Christians? Well guess what, most Christians are NOT, certainly not all the time -- most definitely including me -- and it doesn't take a gun to my head to bring out disappointing actions in me, sadly.
Perhaps your sins are truly far less in number and in human perception of "badness" than mine and theirs are. But as I recall, most of those "wonderful examples" you refer to that are in the Bible, also out and out screwed up royally in addition to their best moments. Did they disappoint you too? Don't you see that we are all disappointments in that way, Cinnamon? I do not at all mean to be rude to you -- I just find it so hurtful that you would take this unbelievable moment of their lives to say judgmental things about these men, that I am defending them.
If they are indeed Christians to begin with (personally, I am factually unaware of that, either way, but IF they are -- ) we are all going to the same place anyway, and thankfully, our God won't be comparing our past sins on earth to one in other the way "we" sometimes do -- especially not judging the worst moments of one's life as necessarily conclusive and definitive.
I know we are all so relieved and thankful they have been released -- AMEN!
One cannot "receive" something unless they "accept" it, which implies willingness. Thus, the mark is not forced, though there may be various levels of persuasion used. Ultimately, those that receive the mark do so of their own free will.
They will be given a "choice" to take the mark or not, to live or die based on that.They spoke the words. The option would have been to not speak. They chose to speak. Yes, they were pressured, but they still chose to speak.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matt. 10:28).
Having said that, I think Centanni and Wiig are ok. They were released and have had time to renounce what they 'chose to do' under extreme pressure.
BUT, I think the real thing to take away from this is WHAT IF THEY HAD BEEN BEHEADED IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY SPOKE THE LAST WORDS OF THEIR 'CONVERSION'? What if they had no opportunity to recant or repent?
There have been civil disagreements, personal attacks, prescient insights, religious squabbles and a zotting.
They would stand face to face with Jesus and settle the matter there, if they truly are Christians (and under duress)...and if not, it really wouldn't matter, would it?
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by Me." John 14:6
KJV
I ask you this in all sincerity, for clarification:
If a professed Christian commits a sin that out and out violates any of, let's say, the Ten Commandments, and die while they were committing the sin, do you feel they lose their salvation because they didn't "have time" to repent of that particular action? And, do you believe if they had lived five minutes longer and repented of it, they would have received salvation back, instead?
When I read threads like this, it makes me wish I were a Jew.
It specifically states in the bible, if you deny before men, I will deny you before my father who is in heaven. Orally converting to Islam is an indirect denial of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But, we have a forgiving God and I believe he will forgive him. But, there may come a day when we have to choose as stated in Revelations, and during that time, names will be blotted from the book of life. So, this decision appears to be a very serious one before God. May we pray for grace and a strong commitment with Him.
"I have the highest respect for Islam" Where does the "respect" come from? I don't have respect for Islam particularly the terrorist kind. And, if there is a peaceful Islam, where are its believing people hiding? I have heard zero Muslim leaders condemn any of the terrorists activities.
Centanni said this morning to Shep Smith it was at the point of a gun and that they "didn't know what the hell was going on".
Typical ROP - convert or die.
Very well said.
I think we have a few here that are disapointed that Steve and Olaf didn't martyr temselves. (shades of fundamentalist fanaticism) ......Oh wait that's another religion isn't it?
The bible thumpers have hijacked this thread.
Such loving christians....they make me sick.
Exactly, it requires acceptance. These men didn't accept--they were forced.
Exactly, it requires acceptance. These men didn't accept--they were forced.
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