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> You're not being honest with yourself dayglored.... crooked secular judges are now taking advantage of widespread constitutional ignorance by ignoring the 10th so the 14th essentially has no checks.

I think perhaps you misunderstood the intent of my comment.

Jefferson's concern, and the scope of the Constitution, was at the federal level. Even though TJ deeply distrusted religious influence in any government, I don't think he intended for the fed-gov to impose limits at the individual state level. He understood the value of states' rights.

Likewise, the 14th -should- have been limited in scope; as you say, cross-checking with the 10th.

The nature of our Republic is such that individual states should have very wide latitude to experiment, including varying amounts of non-secular influence in otherwise secular state governments, as long as that influence does not infringe on federally-protected freedoms. As long as I have the right and ability to move myself to any state I wish, I have no gripe against another state's orientation.

It's only at the federal level -- where it acts as a blanket across all states and every citizen -- that the problems occur, in -either- direction (secular or non-secular).

"I think perhaps you misunderstood the intent of my comment."

Cyberspace communication isn't perfect and I could have misunderstand the intent of your comment.

"The nature of our Republic is such that individual states should have very wide latitude to experiment, including varying amounts of non-secular influence in otherwise secular state governments, as long as that influence does not infringe on federally-protected freedoms. As long as I have the right and ability to move myself to any state I wish, I have no gripe against another state's orientation."

I think that it is a little too politically correct to refer to state governments as secular. While I wouldn't say that state governments were appropriately regarded as religious either, regarding them as secular just gives more leverage to those who want to stifle our religious freedoms, the Constitution be damned.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, if secularists think that they have the license to force Jefferson's "wall of separation" from a private letter into the establishment clause, then they cannot complain if Christians find Jefferson's "Nature's God" and "Creator" from the Declaration of Independence in the 10th Amendment.

Jefferson's concern was at the federal level. Even though TJ deeply distrusted religious influence in any government, I don't think he intended for the fed-gov to impose limits at the individual state level.

Jefferson was concerned about the rights of conscience being violated by any level of government. I bet that if he had possessed the legal authority under the national charter, he would have destroyed the religious establishments in Massachusetts, Connecticut and New Hampshire as well as the few religious tests and civil rights disabilities that were still around when he was President.