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To: attiladhun2; Dark Skies; Red6

Red6:
''As I said before, the Germans are a dying society, people, economy, and political system. It is their own ideology that will lead to their demise.''
As a German with a libertarian point of view - yes, that is a minority in Germany - I have to concede, that you make same valid points. Your analysis is - as always - brilliant, but your conclusions miss the point again. As German people we have survived plenty of horrible disasters in the last 2000 years( self inflicted and inflicted by others).We won't be run over by some Dark Ages ideologists either(no matter what you try to conclude from this leftist MSM cr*p). And I believe that is valid for other European countries as well. Maybe you should do, what Chancellor Kohl did : he disregarded SPIEGEL during his government completely (and refused to give them an interview at all - I believe, he called them ''Dreckschleuder '')
I'm not asking for it , BUT , if some major incidents are going to happen on German soil you will finally have to understand that you have confused(misread) the substance by looking only onto the surface.

Dark Skies:
''But the German people will not die and a new society will be born from the ashes of the old one, IMHO. The Old Europe of the left is dying because it isn't vibrant and alive...it just doesn't work.
I don't think it will replaced with Islam...at least without an earth shaking war to the death.''
Good points!!.
atitiladhun2:
''However, as the Muslims demand more and more and are emboldened to commit acts of violence, that percentage will grow. Europeans have been ruthless with these people before, and I doubt if 60 yrs of Euro-weenerism has bred that out of them. There will be a crossroads some time in the near future ..''
They might just be dump enough to proceed with more violence. It's not difficult to predict a more serious backlash.


30 posted on 08/21/2006 3:33:53 PM PDT by skraut (Sauerkraut forever)
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To: skraut
Reality hurts sometimes.

I love the US Army. I was an Airborne Ranger and served in Iraq. I think the mission in Iraq is both necessary and legitimate. HOWEVER, I would be in denial if I stated that the war in Iraq is not slowly depleting and draining the US Army and Marines. The USAF and USN are unscathed, but the Army in order to meet recruiting goals has dropped some of their educational, age, and background check requirements. A 42 year old enlisting 7 years ago would have been unheard of. Both personnel and equipment is under stress and being burned up. Billions are spent and much of that is not completely covered by defense authorizations for Iraq and Afghanistan. Soldiers are dying and many are getting crippled. You are seeing many jump off the boat as they saw hard times ahead and to meet the required rank structure they are promoting officers and enlisted men extremely quickly. Today you see captains with 3.0 years in service. Something you would not have seen in 2002. Helicopters are aging through excessive use, tanks are getting shot up, new equipment that should have come is not because funds were diverted to other causes which legitimately are now more important that we are in war.

No matter how much I agree with the war, the way we are executing it (Even that is being done right) and how much I loved to soldier and respect our armed forces, the reality is that our military is getting depleted. It is not as dramatic nor as extreme as the NYT's would like one to believe, but nonetheless true. It's not happening over night, but it is happening slowly, one little piece at a time. It is a war of attrition, and ultimately we can win, if the public does not loose its nerve. In the process however, we will get hurt.

The patient Germany is no different. All indicators point down. Good news for the Germans is stagnation. If they manage to get their unemployment down to 10% and 2% growth that would be the best one can hope for and frankly that's bad. Even German as a language is on the decline. That's a fact, and it says something about a cultures world wide influence and significance. Germany is not only economically sick, they are also culturally, militarily, and politically declining. The core, the root of Germany's demise is based on an ideology of socialism. This way of thought spans beyond some social programs, it's a dogma. It even becomes a "Religions Ersatz". How much sense does it make to raise the VAT to 19%? What economist will tell you that's a good idea? Germany is driven by an ideology, an ideology that is even influencing the transatlantic relations, Germany's views on economics............ Germany today is a confused nation. They don't even know who their friends are!

If the 'trend' does not change, and it has not for over TEN YEARS (Double digit unemployment is nothing new to Germany), Germany will just fade away on the world stage as a player. If the 'trend' does not get turned around, Germany in 20 years will be worse off than today. Germany is today a near basket case. The fact that the Germans throw their hands up in the air, point their finger at other, but make no changes themselves is an indicator of where this 'trend' will continue to go along. Please tell, what profound 'systemic' changes are happening? Besides making the Americans their new Jew and calling them locust capitalists, what are they doing different?

If Germany were attacked tomorrow successfully and hundreds died, the Germans would see this as validation to give up and abandon Afghanistan or even take a lighter position on Iran. People like Atlantic Bridge, a self proclaimed German conservative would see this as validation to disengage with the problem Islamic terror. Do you think this is a healthy perception that will lead to any solution?
31 posted on 08/21/2006 4:40:00 PM PDT by Red6
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