MODERN MANNERS (Offering a Woman a Seat Is 'Creepy,' According to GQ)

New York Post ^ | August 18, 2006 | Liz Smith

[nickcarraway]

'WOMEN ARE equals now. They can fend for themselves. To offer a perfectly healthy woman a seat simply because she is a woman, however well-intentioned, is creepy. At best, she'll think you're from another country; at worst she'll feel old, or overweight enough to be perceived as pregnant."

And that is a lesson in modern manners, according to the new issue of GQ (with Clive Owen on the cover). Glenn O'Brien and other GQ scribes weigh in on e-mails, cellphones, gym etiquette, dressing for travel, how to handle chatty seatmates, sleeping with your friend's ex, online dating, wedding gifts and how to treat gay people: "Gay people don't want to freshen up the world, they just want to be a part of it." (So don't ask for makeovers and fashion tips.)

Oh, but you certainly should open doors for women: "Why? To be nice, you mannerless ape!"

[Chena]

How interesting, CindyDawg. I know that if I offer to hold the door for a man, most of them make a gesture, or comment, inviting me to go first. I've never noticed any of the men reacting as if I had insulted them or made them uncomfortable when I've offered up a common courtesy. Also, where I live, I've many times witnessed a man offering to hold the door for another man. Mostly for a senior citizen or a person with obvious medical issues, but sometimes they're just being neighborly.

[Draco]

JFK's brother, RFK, called GQ a "Fag Rag" when it put a picture of the 1960 Dem candidate on its cover during the campaign. Those were less "correct" times. GQ is "creepy" still.

[sam_paine]

Yikes!

Indeed. Pepper spray is what you can expect here in Rural Texas if you DON'T hold the door open for granny! Maybe even dove-shot peppering!

[JavaTheHutt]

I like the manners in Texas; it reminds me of California back in the '60s. The 1860s, that is.

Yes, and some of us in Texas were also taught that it is rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Even if it's a ball cap, take the darn thing off when you come inside. Sometimes I feel like walking around the restaurant knocking caps off of heads and into laps. Why don't people teach their children manners anymore?

While I'm on a tear, don't hold your fork like it's a shovel, and sit up straight. I can't stand to see people who lean over, put their face a couple of inches above their plate, and shovel the food into their mouth. If I am capable of using good manners while eating MREs on a battlefield, why can't these people exhibit a slight grasp of the concept of good manners when eating in restaurants?

[CindyDawg]

That's what I meant. You are holding the door. They motion for you to go on in and hold the door. They seem uncomfortable walking on in.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah but say an 80 year old is holding the door..watch..the 40 year old will greet him, motion him in and take his place. It is interesting. There is a male pecking order on who holds the door:')

[JavaTheHutt]

Personally, I think if you want to know the opinions of gay men, GQ would be a pretty good source.

I've heard the GQ actually stands for Generally Queer.

[CindyDawg]

Places used to have hat racks. Now people steal them.

[FreedomCalls]

We just returned from a trip to Disneyworld, and it was the absolute norm, on the shuttle buses, for all women to be offered seats by men. Furthermore, women with small children were even offered seats by women.

Isn't Disneyworld and Florida in "the south" where traditions like that are respected?

[Draco]

I was in a hurry, so I actually ended up walking even with her as we approached a stairway. I just couldn't help stopping and saying "Ladies First" [after previously holding a door open for her]. I'll never forget the daggers that came out of her eyes. Just one of many episodes that caused me to date Asians.

Had a very similar experience with a date in Boston. Pulled the chair out for her at a restaurant. Now I date Latinas. After one or two dates a Latina, if she likes you, will put her hand and forearm on the inside of your bent elbow. A formal "holding hands." Works for me.

[Freedom4US]

"To offer a perfectly healthy woman a seat simply because she is a woman, however well-intentioned, is creepy. At best, she'll think you're from another country; at worst she'll feel old, or overweight enough to be perceived as pregnant."

All hail the Soviet! The people that use the bully pulpit in this way, just want to make doubly sure the vampire is dead. Eventually, there won't even be anybody left who *remembers* that men are supposed to do things like this. Basically, - women are brainwashed today to be seriously offended if anyone treats them special. Neat trick if you think about it.

[ccmay]

Another manners lesson that most people don't know:

The man leads the lady up a set of stairs. She is not likely to fall down the stairs, and it's not cool to position oneself at eye level with her fine, fine caboose. He leads going downstairs too, so as to give her something to grab if she stumbles.

[Freedom4US]

"This is absolute BS. All the women I know love it when men act like gentlemen and stand when they enter a room, pull out their chair, open their doors, etc.

too bad there wasn't a FR around in my earlier days. I messed up more than my share of relationships with the female of the species because I did not understand the above, at least in broad terms. I really bought into the whole "women's lib" and later, "sensitive male" bs. Maybe my intentions weren't entirely honorable 100 per cent of the time either, but as they say "YMMV"..

[TET1968]

I don't need GQ to tell me how to behave thank you very much.
I could care less if everyone in some So Ho restaurant laughs out loud, I don't sit down until all the females at my table regardless of age have been seated.
I stand when a lady gets up to go to the rest room and I stand up again when she returns.
I don't do it to get laid. She can be fat,ugly and a lesbian, I'll still do it.
I would do it for Helen Thomas....I know that's redundant.

[definitelynotaliberal]

You said you've heard women lash out when courtesies have been offered them. They're merely females, not women and certainly not ladies. Remember the invitation - LADIES and gentlemen. Those standards can't be applied to females and gentlemen or women and gentlemen.

- Gentlemen appreciating lady

[brytlea]

Good job on your Mom! I started when mine were still small but old enough to hold a door open (probably 5ish). At first I would just suggest to them that they open the door for whoever the person was. They always got very positive feedback, which they liked, so they continued.
susie

[brytlea]

Wow, I hope you had her prosecuted for assault!
susie

[brytlea]

Our culture encourages that (shallowness) however I see plenty of average looking people with very good looking ones, so it makes me think that you cannot paint with such a broad brush.

susie

[x_plus_one]

To offer a perfectly healthy woman a seat simply because she is a woman, however well-intentioned, is creepy

Liz Smith is creepy.

Liz Smith's writing is creepy.

Liz Smith's friends are creepy.

[x_plus_one]

Who are you????