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To: Dominic Harr
The only way the terrorists can be said to have 'won' is if you think not killing 100% of them is a loss.

No, the battle is for "hearts and minds". Killing a couple thousand terrorists and destroying munitions does little good, because they can be rapidly replaced (munitions with slightly greater difficulty than terrorists). Taking territory does no good, because Israel doesn't want the territory.

This war can only be won when the vast majority of muslims reject terrorism as a tactic and accept the existence of Israel. This battle did nothing to further either of these goals. The hezboes were still shooting their missiles at the end of the battle. Israel showed itself unwilling to take casualties. The Israelies are indicating that they will exchange prisoners at an unfavorable rate, and relinquish Shaba Farms. The average Muslim is going to view all these things as a vindication of their tactics. Worse, they know that no matter what they do, the world will be on their side and against Israel. Finally, the destruction of Lebanese infrastructure is going to stiffen the Muslim resolve to eliminate Israel.

The result could have been very different. An amoured attack into the Beka valley, and or a Sweep from the Litani back toward Israel would have effectively destroyed the Hezboes and indicated that Iran and Syria are still impotent. It looks like Israel could have achieved both these results, but with significant casualties. The Olmert government didn't have the heart for it.

91 posted on 08/17/2006 11:04:41 AM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: stop_fascism
No, the battle is for "hearts and minds".

Ah, then you're not talking about this series of battles in Lebannon at all, then. You're not talking about military success at all.

This part of the war was a military effort. The military kills the enemy and breaks the tools they use to fight with.

This war can only be won when the vast majority of muslims reject terrorism as a tactic and accept the existence of Israel.

I will agree with that. But that is not what this battle was about. The war is not over yet, I agree. Israel won this round, big. They are safer now than they were at the start of the war.

Weapons and fighters can be replaced, but it is costly. Takes time. And they lost more than just material.

Lebannon, and every other country for that matter, is now aware that if the Hezzys use your country to attack Israel, then Israel will flatten your country.

That is a major deterrent.

Now the 'hearts and minds' thing is a problem. Militarily, we are winning. But the 'culture warriors' of our country, the ones who should be convincing these folks that targeting innocent civilians is evil, are the ones who have failed.

Hollywood. The music industry. Writers, Newspapers, TV.

They are the ones losing the war.

I honestly believe they think we deserve to lose. I honestly think they are enemy sympathizers.

95 posted on 08/17/2006 11:56:54 AM PDT by Dominic Harr (Conservative: The "ant", to a liberal's "grasshopper".)
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To: stop_fascism
The hezboes were still shooting their missiles at the end of the battle.

That means they did not surrender. That does not however illustrate just how many of their 10,000 missiles were blown up before they could ever be fired. Hey, the Russians are still playing global hegemony. Does that mean we lost the Cold War ?

99 posted on 08/17/2006 3:55:46 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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