No Brats Allowed!

MSNBC ^ | 8/15/06 | Victoria Clayton

[steve-b]

For Cindy Nooney's 3-year-old twin boys, playing with the Thomas the Train set at their local bookstore in Southern California is a major thrill. Jack and Sam push Thomas, Arthur and friends down the track, they run around the table, jump up and down — and, of course, they squeeeaal.

Nooney expects as much in the children's section of the store. But on a recent afternoon, she was surprised by an employee who confronted her, calling her darling Jack a tyrant.

"He was a little loud but this is a children's section," says Nooney. "They run a noisy, cavernous bookstore but they don’t want kids to make any noise? It just seems ridiculous and leads me to believe that they don't want kids, they want silent kids."

The bookstore is not the only place that likes quiet, controlled children — and isn't afraid to say so. Across the nation, there are signs of a low-burning uprising against children supposedly behaving badly in public.

Eateries from California to Massachusetts have posted signs on doors and menus saying "We love children, especially when they are tucked in chairs and well behaved" or "Kids must use indoor voices." In North Carolina an online petition was started last year to establish child-free restaurants — the petition loosely compared dining with children to dining with cigarette smoke....

[Tennessee_Bob]

If you do swat their but then suzy busy body calls the police to report abuse. (it takes a safety nazi village)

Ahh - yet another reason to love living in the small-town South. A friend of mine is a police officer that hands out her business cards to parents and tells them that if they need to spank their child and their worried that someone might call the police, to call her and she or one of her officers will come down and supervise to make sure the spanking doesn't get out of hand.

She then tells the child "I've got bad news for you - I don't think there's enough spanking going on in this world, and it's going take a lot for me to think it's getting out of hand."

[B Knotts]

What I'm saying is the bad parenting is caused by the bad parenting of the previous generation.

But I think the bad parenting problem is exaggerated somewhat by people (like the "public relations consultant" who are basically hostile to children and families as a whole.

I don't like seeing unruly children any more than anyone else. But, I sense "more to the story" here, which is my main point.

[bboop]

Sorry, it's Day Care kids. The moms don't know how to parent, and they are guilty and afraid of hurting their little darlings' feelings. And they don't know how to demand good behavior. I see all sorts of parents these days negotiating with their kids!! As if they are all in the same committee. So sorry. It doesn't work like that.

[bboop]

Kids don't have to squeal and roughhouse to play Thomas the Tank Engine. They need to be TRAINED to behave the way YOU want them to behave. Else they might as well be raised by wolves.

[pwatson]

They nailed it, its not that the kids are brats as much as the parents are self centered Narcissist. The parents do not want to be bothered parenting the kids. My wife and I went to a high dollar downtown restaurant with her President last week. A mother had her toddlers and was too busy talking and drinking and totally ignored her toddler who kept escalating his tantrums attempting to get his parents attention. In the first place they should have hired a babysitter. I was brought up to always respect other people’s rights. That it is expected to be quiet and respect other people in the room. Always be respectful, talk to adults only when spoken too. Call adults Mr. and Mrs. Last name. Respect old people, honor your elders. Then the Hippie generation happened, it became free expression, let the kids explore their world, self esteem of the kids was more important than the rights of others. The 1980’s brought us the “me” generation. They became the Enron; WorldCom CEO’s who only cared about self to the total expense of employees, customers and stockholders. My 88 year old dad was walking his dog down the dirt path in his local park last year and a Yuppie couple came from the other direction with their dog. My dad had to stop and get off to the side of the trail to let them by, they refused to yield or even give him eye contact, and they were busy talking.

People talking on cell phones in public places so loud you have to hear them. People talking in movies. I was at a Dallas Symphony with a baby crying for most of the show. Why does that Moms right to hear the show override the rights of 1000 other people straining to hear the concert?
People are self centered rude bastards now days.

[MikeGranby]

> When I was two, I was usually left with a
> babysitter (usually my gramma). That's an
> amazing concept a lot of today's parents
> have never heard of--apparently.

Come on! Not everyone has a relative living nearby so that they can go shopping without their two year-old. And in any case, the kid is still going to have to go out in public for the first time at some point. And unless you wait until he's eight, you're not going to be able to follow the route that you suggest and explain to him beforehand how he ought to behave. Kids will cross lines. Kids will (hopefully) be corrected and, if required, punished for it. But to pretend that kids can be kept out of view until they can be verbally instructed as to how to behave is ridiculous.

[CatoRenasci]

I think everyone who has been a parent understands that even with the best of parental efforts, the little darlings won't always behave, and that sometimes that misbehaviour will be at inconvenient times and places - like on the airplane.

With our two children - now well-behaved adults - we made it clear we did not tolerate misbehaviour and were not afraid to spank them. That doesn't mean they didn't try to test us, in public where they thought they might get away with it. Sometimes you can't just spank them in public. We always dealt with the problem as quietly and firmly as possible - even if we had to physically restrain them.

I think most people if they see an unruly kid in public where the parents are clearly doing everything possible to deal with it (and I don't mean begging and pandering, but being firm) will be sympathetic and understanding. Sure, they won't be happy - you the parent aren't, why should they be? - but they understand. I think what frosts people is the children they see running amok while the parents do nothing, or merely try to bribe them, or worse, think it's cute.

[Tijeras_Slim]

I had two unaccompanied brats (about 7 & 9) next to me on a flight acting like idiots and very loud. I told them if they didn't shutup I'd stuff them down the hole in the toilet.

[brittmac]

Amen.

And enough about the perfection somehow inherent to the previous generation of both parents and children. It's so steretypical, it could be scripted. I call it the "both ways in the snow" argument.

If there were no bad parents back then, how did they get together and create the bad parents of today?

And on this board, no less, where there is at least the pretense of being pro-family. There is nothing pro-family about discussing today's parents and young children as though they are second class citizens.

[B Knotts]

Here is the article of which I had a vague recollection:

'Breeders' Beware: The Bay Area Is An Unfriendly Place

[kaylar]

Slang usage changes with time. At one time, breeders was a slang term used exclusively by homosexuals to slam all heterosexual people. But for at least a decade now, it's been used online to refer to "parents" who allow their children to run wild. Usually it's shortened to BNP, which means breeder not parent. The implication is of a person who gives birth, but then doesn't try to actually raise the child. PNB means 'parent, not breeder' , which means a person who actually tries to instill manners and morals into their children.

It may be that 'breeder' is still used by homosexuals to slam all heterosexuals, but the other slang usage of breeder is growing in popularity (on and off the net), and it's used by many people who've never even heard of the homosexual slang usage that preceded the newer usage. So there's no reason to assume that the author of the piece or the people the author quotes are homosexual, based simply on their use of 'breeder' at least.

[2Jedismom]

My husband and I call it the "Stink Eye". If I have to give the Stink Eye out in public (which I occasionally have to do), it has the effect of yanking a knot in my kids' tails!

LOL!!!

[panthermom]

Time out is the biggest crock of all. I have 2 boys 11 months apart, when they were toddlers I tried the time out method. My oldest would whack his brother with a toy and before I could turn around he'd put himself in time-out. The "Spanky Stick" was much more effective.

[TankerKC]

As I said, I'm not excusing the kids. I'm certainly not excusing the parents. But, I am more tolerant of the kids...they are just doing what comes naturally...and what their parents will allow.

Drunken, cackling, lip smacking, obnoxious adults have no excuse. Maybe I hang in the wrogn places, but I've seen many more stupid adults.

[Paisan]

The most reasonable and accurate response I've read here. ALL children are not created equal and treating them all equally will not garner the same result. Sure, my parents could control ME with their eyes, but they had little effect on my older brothers. It always seems that the 'EXPERTS' never have children of their own. They are experts because of their nieces and nephews. You know, the ones that aren't with them 24/7?

[DonnDe]

When I was two, I was usually left with a babysitter (usually my gramma). That's an amazing concept a lot of today's parents have never heard of--apparently.

Agreed. Or if my mom was meeting someone for coffee it was usually on a neighbor's front porch which allowed us to run around in the yard or play in their basement. I think my local coffee house should start a day car center so that they could get paid for the service they are currently providing for free.

[MikeGranby]

> I think what frosts people is the children they
> see running amok while the parents do nothing,
> or merely try to bribe them, or worse, think
> it's cute.

I would hope so -- but there is a section of society, and a growing one at that, for whom the annoyance caused by the natural noise of children is proof of the superiority of their own lifestyle choice. I'll take a world filled with the screams of children anyday over a world filled with silence. And if the anti-breeders get their way, that's all there'll be.

[DManA]

You pissed away a golden opportunity.

down the hole in the toilet.

[libstripper]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[HeadOn]

"...just a BABY..."

My wife and I came to an understanding pretty quickly on that one:

Our oldest was crawling and pulling up, and was determined to pull up on the hearth in the den, where he could have been hurt if he fell on the corners of the bricks.

I went over the first time, picked him up, and looked him in the face, and said "NO".

He persisted. This time, I added a gentle swat on his bare leg.

He persisted. The third time, I made sure he felt the swat. He cried, whereupon my lovely bride went into ATTACK mode. "HE'S JUST A BABY! HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND!"

I looked calmly at the woman I loved and said, "We have a DOG in the backyard who understands 'NO'. Are you telling me THAT DOG is smarter than YOUR CHILD?" End of discussion.

By the way, that was the last time he ever tried to pull up on the bricks. (No, I refused to pad the hearth. We did cover the electrical outlets, though. There are too many, and that's a bit more difficult to teach.)