President Bush Live From the State Department

[Chena]

Methinks your anger is misdirected: FROM CAPTAIN'S QUARTERS: Israel made clear what they wanted from their war from its beginning. It wanted their soldiers returned and the Lebanese government to disarm Hezbollah and move them out of the sub-Litani region. The Israelis want an end to Hezbollah's capability to shower rockets down on their cities. Those goals fit within Israeli political reality, which will abolutely reject another long occupation of Lebanon, considered by many as their Viet Nam. These limited goals may have made some of their international supporters despair, but the Olmert government does not want to fight the combined armies of Arabia again unless absolutely necessary, and that time has not yet come. In this context, George Bush delivered the best deal he could to meet those goals. He fought the UN to a stalemate while allowing Israel a free hand to conduct military missions against Hezbollah positions and leadership, creating some diplomatic backlash against the US as a result. When France tried to weasel its way into the good graces of the Arab states supporting Hezbollah, Bush made sure they did so by themselves, and then forced them back. In the end, the resolution calls for the solution that Israel wanted all along, and it commits the UN to provide enough forces to at least have a chance of successful implementation. Bush also made sure that the Israelis did not have to leave Lebanon until that force replaced them despite loud calls for immediate withdrawal, allowing Israel to protect its retreat. My point, therefore, was that George Bush could hardly be blamed for delivering almost everything Israel wanted out of this war, and doing so with unanimous UN Security Council approval. In fact, the result should be seen as something of a diplomatic accomplishment. Israel set the goals, and we delivered. If the result is unsatisfactory, then I believe it is unfair to blame George Bush for demanding a war that Israel did not want to wage. Posted by Captain Ed at August 12, 2006 http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/007781.php#trackbacks

Excellent post and worthy of a big bttt! Thank you, DrDeb.

[yellowdoghunter]

I will have some of my faith restored if they actually get the two soldiers back safe and sound. Wonder if that will happen?

[Chena]

I don't trust the French and reasons for that distrust are well documented in news articles about their less than honorable (understatement!) dealings; including their friendship with Hezbollah.

[Da Mav]

sounds like the blame America first, last, and always crowd is out in full force on this thread.

Condi should have been driving the lead tank roaring across South Lebanon in the early days of the war. Isn't that the US Secretary of State's job?

[InterceptPoint]

Once they showed an unexpected weakness, we had no choice.

Sure we did. We could have supported them militarily. We chose not to.

[Chena]

It is my understanding that using all "caps" to express yourself is the same as yelling. You find that charming behaviour? ROFL! Reminds me of someone I know who is enjoying transforming herself into a "crotchety ole biddy", and "ornery coot" (her words, not mine). I told her that she might be enjoying her transformation, but I highly doubt her family and friends are enjoying it.

Has charm lost all meaning these days? lol

[InterceptPoint]

I heard Condi talk on FNC and she quite clearly said that Hezbollah would be diarmed.

Well that's a little bit of good news. Did she say who was going to do the disarming?

[pollyannaish]

You're right. I didn't ask Mike to stop.

It was because it was clear to me from the beginning that Mike was playing with you. You, on the other hand, started out agreeing with a certain angle in an argument and when you got a lot of guff you started complaining about protected freepers.

Mike's intentions were clear from the point he jumped into the fray. Your intentions on this thread changed. Think Hockey. At some point, it ceases to be about the game. That's what happened here.

In any case, this place is enormously political as much as it is about the political. There are people here who I am lucky enough to have very good discussions with, even though we disagree on many issues, because we've treated each other with mutual respect.

And to be honest, there are other days when I am simply itching for a fight and will take on any old ascot that happens to cross my path. Hopefully, its a troll, but sometimes I'm just not that discerning. I'm ready to bite the head off bats. Also fine.

But getting involved in one of those means you've got to cop to it and admit your flame-baiting. It means that you get to control when it's finished. You don't get to call victim when you're part of the game, something that Mike hasn't done. That's all.

[pollyannaish]

Oh, and by the way.

That was my best effort at imitating a thread nanny and if either one of you make fun of me I will haunt you for the rest of your lives.

LOL.

[DoughtyOne]

It would have been a good post if it had acknowledged that nobody is going to disarm Hezbollah in Lebanon and that Israel did not get it's citizens back. That being Israel's main two goals, I'm at a loss to see what the remainder of the post could salvage. AT ALL.

The ceasefire came too soon. If it took months, Israel should have had a green light. We have taken three years to fight terrorists and none of us are demanding a stop to that.

[InterceptPoint]

Question for anyone who actually listened to Bush's speech:

Did he say ANYTHING about disarming Hezbollah?

[yellowdoghunter]

My very first post was about how certain freepers can say things and it be fine, whereas others can't. That is a fact. My angle did not change.

I did not call my self a victim, I only pointed out what everyone else knows. At least you admit that MikefromOhio only came on this thread to "play" with me as you like to call it.

Anyway, please know that I didn't expect you to really "call MFO out", like you did me, that would require you to go out on your own, and I don't think you like to do that. That's all.....

[Chena]

I hold out hope that Israel knows exactly what they're doing, and for good reasons. I'm still listening and waiting before I'm convinced that the naysayers are right. I want those two soldiers returned and Hezbollah disarmed (as well as you can disarm a terrorist organization in the first place). I do believe Israel has done a considerable amount of damage.

[HAL9000]

so I guess you would agree that when it comes time to disarm the Hezzies...either it won't get done, or the "peace" will be disrupted.....???

I think there is a decent chance that Hezbollah will turn over their weapons to the Lebanese Army for disposal by Unifil before the end of the year. In return, they'll probably cut a deal to get a another portfolio in the Lebanese government, like the Ministry of Reconstruction. That's the way the world works.

[DoughtyOne]

Chena, we used to desimate our enemy in Vietnam. Then Congress would goad Nixon into calling a ceasefire, and the VC would regroup, rearm and attack again. That is precisely what we see in Lebanon, only this time it's France, the U.S. and the U.N. instead of Congress, and it's Israel instead of the U.S. on the other side.

We learned NOTHING from Vietnam. It's such a pitty.

Hezbollah will not disarm. Nobody is going to make them. Nobody wants to wage war against them. They just want Peace, and are too stupid to realize this is only a path to more war.

Thanks for the comments.

[pollyannaish]

I've tried to be direct with you. I thought I'd outlined my position clearly. You are certainly free to disagree. Yet now you are trying to insult me by telling me that I don't think for myself and draw me into a personal fight.

You have been clear as well. Your position that I don't think for myself is certainly within your rights and not something that I am in a position to argue.

Frankly, I'm disappointed. I honestly wish you the best and hope that sometime we can have a civil conversation.

[Btrp113Cav]

everyone on foxnews agrees that israel was restrained and couldnt do what needed to be done. Hezbollah won this. They still hold the cards let not forget who still has two abducted soldiers. What a joke. I cant believe the double standards when it comes to fighting the war on terror.

[ohioWfan]

Will this be rebroadcast? I only heard the end of it....

[yellowdoghunter]

If I misunderstood your posts, I apologize. I do not want to draw you into a personal fight, please know that is not my intention.

My only point on this thread was to stick up for those who were getting bashed and trashed by the usual suspects, just for having a differing opinion. And I would stick up for them whether I agreed with them completely or not.

Once again, I apologize and do look forward to having a civil conversation with you in the future. I am sure we can find many things that we do agree on.

[Btrp113Cav]

Neil Cavutos panel all agreed except for one moron that israel lost this, and are not holding any cards. France has already said it wont disarm hezbollah, and hezbollah itself has said it wont disarm. Its the intl community and mainly the Bush administration that has told israel to back off. I suspect the US is scared of getting into a conflict with iran. We always have been gun shy with iran they control a large portion of the oil market. Elections are around the corner. Do the math.