Zombie Army in Form of 'Nice Kids'

New York Post ^ | 12 August 2006 | Steve Dunleavy

[Aussie Dasher]

THEY appeared, by and large, to be normal kids - right up until the moment they plotted to blow thousands of people into oblivion.

"Outward impressions with certain people who have a disconnect, a fracture if you will, in their makeup don't necessarily mean a lot," said Dr. Allan Manevitz, a leading psychiatrist at Weill-Cornell Medical Center.

"There are serial killers with mothers who love them and who love their mothers."

The British terror suspects were soccer fans, and largely polite.

One of them was Brian Young, 28, who changed his name to Umar Islam after converting two to three years ago.

[DieHard the Hunter]

Crikey! According to this article, these scroats aren't even proper Muslims. Just Stoopid Kids!!!

[T.L.Sink]

One of my favorite contemporary writers is Theodore Dalrymple. Dr. Dalrymple is a British psychiatrist who has had on-the-ground experience in numerous Islamic societies where he served as physician in several hospitals.

I posted one of his essays here which David Brooks of the N.Y. Times cited as the best journal article of 2004.

In that essay he discusses his clinical observations of many who have converted to Islam. He comments on the high number of muslims in British prisons. BUT, he states that all the conversion propaganda there is addressed to the huge number of Jamaican inmates. Why? Let me quote him.


"As for Muslim prosolytism in the prison - and Muslim literature has been insinuated into nooks and crannies there far more thoroughly than any Christian literature - it is directed mainly at the Jamaican prisoners. It answers their need for an excuse to go straight while not at the same time surrendering to the morality of a society that they believe has wronged them deeply. Indeed, conversion to Islam is THEIR REVENGE UPON THAT SOCIETY, for they sense that their newfound religion is fundamentallly opposed to it. By conversion, therefore, THEY KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE."


To me, this is the explanation (based on psychiatry and clinical observation) that explains the conversion phenomenon best.


If anyone would like me to send them this essay I'd be glad to. E-mail me at: t.sink@att.net

[ncountylee]

Any convert to Islam would get my full distrust.

[GOP Poet]

bump for later

[willyd]

You hit the nail on the head. People who are incarcerated have shown a larger than average contempt for this nation's rules and regulations. They have usually been unsuccessful in other areas of their life as well. In prison a chaplain or another prisoner explains to them that it isn't their fault and that they were set up to lose in the Western culture from the beginning. Much easier to swallow than "You are a loser" if you ask me.

[Mad Dawg]

Apparently the author isn't very familiar with the history human behavior.

+1. Yes.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The Koran is even nuttier than the Satanic Bible.

[HiTech RedNeck]

No, I think they did become sincere, fanatic Koran believers. The Koran should be subtitled "how to go nuts just like Mad Mo."

[the invisib1e hand]

zombies first, muslims second. the muslim radical theme only gives them a means of articulating their self-hatred.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Where is there any evidence that Heinrichs converted to Islam?

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

"Where is there any evidence that Heinrichs converted to Islam?"

Well, as Patrick Briley pointed out, "During the time he was unaccounted for at OU, was Hinrichs being recruited, indoctrinated and taught about explosives by Islamic terrorists in US or foreign training camps? When he returned to OU in spring 2005 Hinrichs suddenly took on Pakistani Fazal M. Cheema and other Islamic students as his roommates, started visiting the OU mosque, and grew a full beard, the symbol of new Islamic convert."

So:

o Walks like a muslim

o Talks like a muslim

o Looks like a muslim

o Consorts with muslims

o Rooms with muslims

o Socializes with muslims

And, finally,

o Blows himself up like a muslim, at a major public gathering and using tried-and-true muslim explosives (complete with crowd-killing embedded projectiles).

If he wasn't a muslim, he certainly deserves honorary membership in the Religion of Peace.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Almost all of those claims have been discredited.

Supposition and questions are not proof. There is no proof that he was a convert. Grew a beard? LoL. I must be an iman by that standard.

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

I agree: Hinrichs' beard, social life, roommate and sudden interest in ANFO and TATP are minor issues, and potentially refutable.

The kicker is his ultimate act. And I'm here to tell you: Make a backpack bomb, riddle it with ball bearings or nails, stroll over to a major public event and detonate it (and yourself), and I'll be within my rights to call you a probable jihadi too, if only under the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle.

I understand what you're saying but when one has done all those things in the middle of a global war when such acts are the trademarked tools of the Bad Guys, the burden of proof falls quite low. Add to that the changes in his appearance and social life, and the parallels between him and Gadahn/Lindh/Reid etc. grow rather convincing.

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

Let me give you another example.

Dial back sixty years or so, late '40s say. Say a guy is found to have murdered Jews by gassing them and incinerating their corpses in an oven.

Was he a Nazi?

Good enough to say so, I'd think, judging solely by his acts. "But there's no proof he'd converted to Nazism," you'd protest. Fair enough, but if he'd hobnobbed at the Biergarten with Nazis, attended indoctrination sessions with Nazis, shacked-up with Nazis and started dressing like a Nazi, then together with his final bad act history would be justified in terming him to be a Nazi.

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

One more thing. Folks seem to think it's some big whackin' deal to "convert to Islam." No it isn't; it's not like joining the Catholic Church or Judaism; there's no christening or Bar Mitzvah or anything of the sort, and no certificate comes in the mail from Mecca. You can "convert" to Islam right now, in the next five minutes, right there in the comfort of your own home in Denialville.

From http://islam.about.com/c/ht/00/07/How_Convert_Islam0962933372.htm:

How to Convert to Islam
From your Islam Guide

If you believe in the teachings of Islam, it is recommended to make a formal declaration of faith. After careful study and prayer, if you find that you want to embrace the faith, here's how.

Difficulty Level: Average    Time Required: Variable

Here's How:

1. For a Muslim, every action begins with your intention.  Quietly, to yourself, make the intention to embrace Islam as your faith.
2. Say the following words with clarity of intention, firm faith and belief:
3. Say: "Ash-hadu an la ilaha ill Allah."  (I bear witness that there is no diety but Allah.)
4. Say: "Wa ash-hadu ana Muhammad ar-rasullallah."  (And I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.)
5. Take a shower, symbolically cleansing yourself of your past life.
6. Learn how to pray and practice Islam in your daily life.
7. Continue to learn, study, and grow in your new faith.
   

[justshutupandtakeit]

The most important aspect of a conversion is missing: the announcement that he did so. No one has indicated that he told them. But it is not in question that he was nutso.

[justshutupandtakeit]

The fact remains that no one has any proof that this guy was a jihadist. Wishing that it were so is not proof even though I share the same wish.

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

"The most important aspect of a conversion is missing: the announcement that he did so."

Where do you get the idea that this is the most important aspect of a conversion?

It is not a requirement for Islam.

And you discount the notion that he might have told his new buddies at the mosque, and his roommates, and maybe even his family. The buddies and roommates aren't talking (and let's face it, they'd have every reason not to), nor are the parents (ditto, if only from mortification). Absence of evidence (at least of the type that you insist upon) is not evidence of absence, particularly against the background of his deeds.

So, judge by the acts. I contend that exploding one's self with a nail-packed backpack at a big public event is prima facie evidence that one is a jihadi and that the burden of proof shifts to the bomber in that case. The rest of the story--friends, mosque visits, beard and so on--merely supports that evidence. You're free to disagree, of course, and label him a probable Mennonite or Buddhist if you wish, or nothing at all. But this is war, and anyone who adopts the means and methods of our enemy deserves to be grouped with them.

[justshutupandtakeit]

I did not mean the most important element which makes you Moslem is an announcement you have converted. I mean the overwhelming tendency of a convert is to make sure everyone knows it since it is a rebellion and rejection of everything NOT Islamic. While there may be some secret conversions I have seen nothing to indicate this was one.

Prima facie evidence is NOT proof and there is NO other evidence you have submitted.

Without accurate knowledge events don't work out well particularly in War.

I am familiar with the initial speculations and rumours but almost all of them have been shown to be without foundation.

Those of us who recognize the danger Islam poses cannot get sloppy and start using the Dan Rather method of making claims wherein those disagreeing must prove a statement false rather than the claimant having to verify his facts before putting them out.

It is important that every claim we make be 100% verifiable and this one is far from that. I would love to be able to show that he was a convert since it would drive home into the thick skulls of the American people the fact that Islamic Fascists are a deadly danger. But have no real proof to back such claims.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Crikey! According to this article, these scroats aren't even proper Muslims. Just Stoopid Kids!!!

Islam is the ideal religion for hoodlums. If being pious and doing it the hard way is no fun, you can drink, watch soccer matches, use multitudes of women and then blow yourself up for Islam and go straight to heaven where you can do more of the same forever.