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30 Tanks Wiped Out in Lebanon
ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS ^ | Aug 11, '06 | not attributed

Posted on 08/11/2006 6:05:24 AM PDT by APRPEH

(IsraelNN.com) IDF officials admit that the biggest surprise of the ongoing war against Hizbullah is the ease by which terrorists have destroyed IDF tanks.

At least 30 tanks have been totally destroyed or seriously damaged in bomb and anti-tank rocket attacks involving state-of-the-art Russian anti-tank rockets.

About one-half of the military personnel killed in southern Lebanon were inside tanks.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antitank; armor; hezbollah; israel; lebanon; tank
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To: APRPEH

"state-of-the-art Russian anti-tank rockets."

That's all the farther anyone needs to read; that says it all, doesn't it?

Just for the record, (and the kl00-less), "Katushka" is NOT an Arabic diminutive name, it's Russian. There are so many copies and variants on the original Russian design the term is used to cover a wide range of Russian designed and built artillery rockets.

The bottom line here is that these weapons are being provided to the terrorists by the Russians, via the Syrians. The Soviet Union is long gone, but it was, at it's heart all along, Russian; and the Russians are whores for anyone's hard cash. They long supported the Stalinists/Baathists in the Middle East, and nothing has changed in that.

So all of that just begs the question: Just what the hell are we waiting for?? Must we wait until Hezbollah gets it's hands on a nuke, or enough chemical weapons to wipe out Tel Aviv, and actually uses either one, before we stop dicking around in the UN, and do what has to be done? And by that I mean unilaterally disarming the Syrians by wiping out every military target in their country.


61 posted on 08/11/2006 6:57:13 AM PDT by Bean Counter (Stout hearts!!)
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To: massadvj

My pet theory has been that Iran is using Israel as a feint, and one day we're going to wake up with Iran storming across the UAE and taking the Saudi oil fields... Talk about becoming an economic superpower overnight! Could Israel respond? Maybe. Could we? We'd have to - but then Baghdad would fall if we had to divert sizable forces to Saudi Arabia. The oil market would go berzerk and our economy would be crippled. If Iran has a delivarable nuclear weapon, the perfect blackmail would ensue - "move us off these oil fields and London gets it. You want to nuke us? GO AHEAD, we'll martyr the entire nation and take you with us."


62 posted on 08/11/2006 7:00:57 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: oldbrowser

The beauty of having a decreasing commodity is that the price will just go up as it peeters out. They'll have ungodly wealth to the end.


63 posted on 08/11/2006 7:03:13 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: aimhigh
I'm convinced there is only one correct way to fight Islamic terrorism. Use air power to take them back to the stone age. No treaty, no rebuilding. Every time they bark, bomb them hard.

When will we ever learn. Fear of us is the only thing that will contain them. To win this war they and all who support them have to be destroyed. There is no other solution.

64 posted on 08/11/2006 7:04:01 AM PDT by RAY
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia
Actually, I think they're using modified AT-3 Spandrels as someone else mentioned and they may have acquired some of the new Kornets or Chinese/Russian variants. Saggers wouldn't do much against a Merkava unless you hit it directly on top which takes considerable skill and luck with second generation misisles. The newest types of AT missiles such as the Kornet, TOW-3, Javelin, etc..., are designed for top attack. If the Hezbos are armed with these, this marks another step in the escalation of how serious the situation is.
65 posted on 08/11/2006 7:10:06 AM PDT by aegiscg47
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To: stylin19a

Quote: "But since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, with tanks in daily combat against the unexpectedly fierce insurgency, the Army says 80 of the 69-ton behemoths have been damaged so badly they had to be shipped back to the United States. "

I have to snicker at the MSM's lack of understanding. Of course armor is going to be damaged. There is NO armor out there that can withstand a well designed charge. The real measure of the effectiveness of armor, however, is not how damaged the vehicle is, but crew survivability. I think the Army would trade a tank for the crew everytime.


66 posted on 08/11/2006 7:11:41 AM PDT by FlipWilson
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To: APRPEH

there is a simple solution to this
continueing garbage.

give every Israeli in the North half
of the country,
fifty, free flight artillery rockets


67 posted on 08/11/2006 7:14:10 AM PDT by greasepaint
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To: DogBarkTree

WOW look how big that sucker is? I love that weapon!

USE more, don't delay,
bomb them back to the stone age!


68 posted on 08/11/2006 7:16:36 AM PDT by stockpirate (John Kerry & FBI files ==> http://www.freerepublic.com/~stockpirate/)
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Comment #69 Removed by Moderator

To: Bombard

I'm not a military expert, but after just reading The Killer Angels about the battle of Gettysburg...frontal assault on a well entrenched enemy holding the high ground...sounds like Pickett's Charge to me.

The halmark of the Israeli military has always been its mobility and firepower. What I cannot understand is why they haven't tried to outflank the Hezbollah positions by an aerial or seaborne assault and attack the Hezzie rear.


70 posted on 08/11/2006 7:24:57 AM PDT by letsgonova19087
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To: massadvj

Democrats want it that way. It won't change.


71 posted on 08/11/2006 7:25:49 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: aegiscg47
...probes and raids with tanks isn't the most efficient use of armor, leading
to the enemy being able to pick off vehicles at will. Armor needs to
be used in full scale assaults, backed by artillery and air support
so that enemy forces don't have a chance to get set up for a attack
with AT missiles.


I'm a never-served civilian.
But from what little I read, that's what I was thinking.

IIRC, the reason Croatia was able to stave off tank attacks was the
use of Milans. And I read that one of the units being used by Hezbollah.
72 posted on 08/11/2006 7:27:18 AM PDT by VOA
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To: TomasUSMC
I believe the loses are due to the decision to halt the offensive which puts the Tanks into immobile defensive positions. Some Israeli military have been complaining of this stoppage.

EXCELLENT POINT!
73 posted on 08/11/2006 7:31:54 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: oldbrowser
When their oil runs out, they will have wasted all of their wealth on blowing things up and will have left a desert wasteland to their children.

That would be one vision. The other is that our children convert to Islam or die.

74 posted on 08/11/2006 7:33:59 AM PDT by massadvj
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To: APRPEH

It's a surprise at first sight but when you remember that Hezbollah is financed by Iran..........


75 posted on 08/11/2006 7:35:48 AM PDT by no dems (www.4condi.com)
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To: Bean Counter
Just for the record, (and the kl00-less), "Katushka" is NOT an Arabic diminutive name, it's Russian. There are so many copies and variants on the original Russian design the term is used to cover a wide range of Russian designed and built artillery rockets.

That's not correct. The Katyusha rocket was first used by the Soviets in WWII as an answer to German artillery. However, since that time over 20 countries have produced the rockets and even more keep them in their inventory. The US has a version. The Katyusha rockets being used against Isreal are Syrian, and the longer range Fajr-3 and Fajr-5 are Iranian. None of these are Russian.
76 posted on 08/11/2006 7:37:46 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: aegiscg47

The Hezbollah has Kornets (AT-14), the latest missile from the Sov, er, Russians. It can knock out a Merkava through its frontal armor.


77 posted on 08/11/2006 7:39:43 AM PDT by Little Ray (If you want to be a martyr, we want to martyr you.)
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To: Rutles4Ever

You may be right. I think their strategy is to take Lebanon, then the Sunni and Shiite sections of Iraq (Syria gets the Sunni section), then turn to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, riding the supreme elation of the Arab street to victory there, and the prize of the oil fields and infrastructure in both places. As you say, the nuclear capability will be the immunity elixir keeping the west out it.


78 posted on 08/11/2006 7:40:04 AM PDT by massadvj
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel.

also Keywords 2006israelwar or WOT [War on Terror]

----------------------------

79 posted on 08/11/2006 7:41:19 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: in hoc signo vinces
In the face of determined infantry, and without IDF Infantry support in proper numbers, any tank would be toast up agaisnt the huge anti-tank mines, and especially the very large Russian anti-tank rockets. Even the Abrams has proven somewhat vulnerable to the lowly HESH RPG rounds fired from behind the tank. We are headed back to square WWI with tanks. They need to be closely supported. Dug-in (even subterranean), camouflaged, anti-tank teams need to be dealt with by infantry, expecially if the Muslim anti-tankers are willing to commit suicide by remaining silent while being overrun and waiting to attack armor from behind. Even then, remotely controlled mines would still be a danger.

Dare we say it? Without proper tactics, tanks are a diminishing asset.

80 posted on 08/11/2006 7:42:02 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Yeah, I posted something like this before. Repetitio Mater Scientiae.)
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