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I suppose there are exceptions. I challenge any resonable parent to find one. If they do, they are likely charter or private schools.

Hey! I found one right here in my community. Top notch teachers, good extra curricular programs, caring students and excellent staff support. My rising junior loves her high school and would go no where else. She has NEVER seen drugs in the hallways, although she has heard kids talk about parties where drugs were. In the 6 years between my two girls, they have indeed heard or or seen a handful of fights, but they were broken up quickly by alert staff members. Yes, they have heard curse words. But, to be honest, they heard most of them from me first; I have a potty mouth at times, I work on it, but things slip through.

Their educational experience has been incredible. My younger took her first AP class as a sophomore--World History II--and earned a ** 5 ** on her AP test--which if you look on collegeboard.com you will see that WH is one of the hardest exams and only 10% score a 5. So, yeah, safe to say, she was educated well in that area.

I could go on and on about how great I think her school is, but it would probably bore most readers. But her experiences and high school are good enough though that every college we have visited has indicated they would offer significant money and one said up front, she'd probably get a full ride academic scholarship.

But, I've mentioned her experience before and you pooh-poohed it as my being out of touch etc, mocked it as a "blue ribbon" school (I don't even know what that is), and generally refuse to believe my experiences. You even referred to my daughters as "monsters" once. On the other hand, we are expected to take all of your experiences at pure face value.

I completely support anyone's right to homeschool. There are numerous cases in which that is the absolute best place for a child to be. But it is not the only way to educate a child successfully. Your children's path of early graduation and then community college at 12 or so makes me shudder with distaste. But, it was your choice and it worked for you. Great. My family's choices are working for us.

And we are not as you so haughtily stated .... too stupid, too lazy, too dysfunctional, too poor, too sick, too mental ill,too materialistic, too uncaring, too ignorant, etc

Government schools in your community are likely age segregated. They are herded about like sheep to a timer. Children ride buses to and from them. Their school day is 6 or more hours long. After being confined for most of their waking day, they still have homework.

In government schools in your community there are alpha girls and bullies flying under the teacher's radar. Your children, if not actively involved or complicit in the the alpha girl emotional shredding or physical bullying, were witnesses to this abuse. As you stated, they were witnesses to fights. You have stated that parties with drugs were openly discussed. I am certain that after seeing and hearing this this they felt less safe both physically and emotionally.

What can I say about the "socialization" where parties with drugs are openly discussed and children come from a home with a mother with a "potty mouth"?

As Dr. Laura has pointed out all the high grades, or "AP" courses in the world are no substitute for morality, and I would add, physical and emotional safety.

While your girls are survivors, I can only wonder about the children are not the survivors. What about those children who are not in the AP courses and are now known to be in the stupid courses? What about their sense of self-esteem? What about the kids who weren't able to swim through the toxic waste of potty mouth, fights, and parties with drugs?

To those parents with children who weren't the survivors, who are drowning in the the toxic waste, I would say to them that their children would have been better off being homeschooled. To those parents whose children seem to be surviving, I would say that their children would have been better off not witnessing the destruction of human potential.

And we are not as you so haughtily stated .... too stupid, too lazy, too dysfunctional, too poor, too sick, too mental ill,too materialistic, too uncaring, too ignorant, etc

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Homeschooling will continue to grow and its success will become self evident. As this happens, people will say, "What? Please explain to me why you are institutionalizing your precious child?"

Those parents who institutionalize their child will be on the defensive. They will be explaining exactly why they needed institutionalization. They will be the parents who will need to explain why they aren't too lazy, too stupid, too ignorant, too dysfunctional, too uninformed, too lacking in self-confidence, too ill-educated themselves, too sick, etc.

As for you, SoftballMom, given the options available to you at that time, you made the best informed decision possible. When your children were starting out in school, the homeschool movement was in its infancy. Thankfully, your children survived. From your post, it is evident that many of their peers have not.

"Hey! I found one right here in my community. Top notch teachers, good extra curricular programs, caring students and excellent staff support. My rising junior loves her high school and would go no where else."

You're very fortunate. Some people do win the public education lottery. I would argue that there are far more who don't.

We all base our perspectives on part on our own experiences. I've been blessed (or cursed) to have had many personal experiences with the government schools. My family moved a lot so I got to go to many different government schools. They ran the gamut from the absolutely terrifying to the reasonably competent. I had teachers who were stunningly incompetent, and others whom I still admire to this day.

The problem is, the government schools are at best a crapshoot, and the parent has little say in either the selection of specific teachers or the curriculum. There is also the simple logistical challenge of teaching 20-30 children at one time. Effective education *does* have something to do with the amount of time spent in individual instruction with each child. Even the NEA beats the drum of reducing class sizes.

Homeschooling, even in huge families, has a logistical advantage in that more individual time can be spent with each child. The parents choose the curriculum. The parents are the teacher.

There is no such thing as a panacea, and I'm the first to acknowledge that there is a need for government schools. In much the same way I acknowledge the need for prisons.

The question is whether the government schools should be educators of first or last resort. I'm clearly in the "last resort" camp. Most of the public and probably most FReepers would disagree with me. They send their kids to what they perceive as "good" government schools. I've gone to "good" government schools personally, and worked in them from time to time as an adult. And I could tell you some tales about those experiences. And I think I might do that more often on these threads.