Toyota, Honda report sales jump in July

AP via Yahoo ^

[Las Vegas Dave]

Check out the internet (edmunds.com, thecarconnection.com) for price quotes to you, they'll deal. ( I got quotes at near factory invoice for 2007 Camry, via Internet. )

Honda Civics are cute but overpriced, look at a Corolla for value.

[Las Vegas Dave]

Sweet! This baby can do 500 miles without pit stops! < /humor >

[Caipirabob]

But they aren't standing still. They are getting better and better at a rapid pace and now they have turned their attention to trucks and SUVs - up to now the only real bright spot in Detroit.

That's going to put the big 3 losers under, IMHO. In SoFlo, SUVs are a novelty and we have one simply because it's safer to be in a bigger car when you risk some nutjob who never signals slams into you. However having recently travelled to Colorado and seeing the mountain road conditions first hand, I realize SUVs/trucks w/4WD are not a choice in many cases.

If we had not been driving a 4WD on some of those Rocky Mt roads, we would not have gotten far. SUVs and trucks are going to be a sustainable market despite whatever the gas prices are in those areas. Everyone needs at least one to get around there. If Toyota and Honda provide an alternative, it's going to sell, and it's more than likely to be a better product than the big 3 losers.

[decimon]

As I recall, GM was reported to have an unfunded pension liability in the neighborhood of 10-15 *billion* dollars as far back as the eighties. This during a time of robust sales. No one seemed to wonder then why none of the profits were being plowed into this snowballing liability.

As I recall, the IRS disallowed any "overfunding" of pension plans as that was deemed to be the hiding of profits. Maybe someone with more knowledge of these matters will clarify.

[MaDeuce]

The Tundra is "barley" a 1/2 ton truck. I'm talking at least a 1 ton duel rear wheel with 8' bed.

Plus V8 diesels are like little dogs, they make a lot of noise but have no power ... straight 6 diesels are the only option. Toyota's Hino and Nissan's UD trucks have nice inline 6 cyl. diesels.

[SmoothTalker]

The Corvette is about the only outstanding thing in their lineup now. Things like the Malibu Maxx are a joke next to their European and Japanese counterparts. Even things like their highly hyped G6 and Solstice haven't got the reviews of their top competitors. The company has made substandard products for the last thirty years. They don't deserve to be rewarded for making cars that don't drive as well or last as long as top competitors. Either they need to shape up, or they should go under.

[SmoothTalker]

Very good post and I agree with you. Chrysler is the only one of the three putting out a lot of compelling mainstream cars. of course it took merging with Daimler-Benz for them to get any flair in their lineup but they have some none the less. They don't have the reliability of the Japs but are very unique and exciting cars (300, Magnum, etc). Problem is most of them start up in the mid-20's and a lot of buyers aren't looking to get a heavy car with a V8 in the days of three dollar gas. I could see getting a Chrysler but I really don't see any reason to get a mainstream GM or Ford. I don't understand buying something that isn't as well made, depreciates a lot faster, doesn't handle as well, and on average isn't as reliable.

[SmoothTalker]

"
When Toyota, Honda, or Nissan make a 4-door truck that can tow 15,000+ lbs and offer a 6-speed manual ... call me, until then their trucks are just fancy toys."

Thing is that for 99% of Americans and the vast majority of truck buyers that is overkill. For most people something the size of a Toyota Tundra or a Nissan Titan is plenty big. Heck for most something the size of a Tacoma is enough to meet their needs. Americans have had a tendency to buy a lot more truck than they need or will ever use. High gas prices are working to curb that tendency.

[SmoothTalker]

For me it won't be enough for them to match the quality of Toyota or Honda. They must beat it. Low quality GM products drove me to the Japs. I have been a very happy customer since making that switch. I won't switch back without a very compelling reason.

[wardaddy]

I bought a used Land Cruiser.....they make good caca.

[SmoothTalker]

"I think Toyota has a really good chance of bumping GM out of the top spot, at least temporarily."

I read that worldwide they will pass GM this year. It'll be the first time in something like fifty years that GM isn't the world number one. I doubt Toyota gives that title back.

[wtc911]

Hell, even Hyundai beats Detroit for quality and dollar value.

[eraser2005]

Yeah, my 97 Taurus is such a piece of junk that I've spent just about $14 a year in repair costs. About $180 in maintenance and repair costs over the past two years.

My 98 Camry has cost $2000 in maintenance and repair in the past two years.

Tell me again which one is quality?

[eraser2005]

Reminder:

In just about every survey imaginable, Nissan ends up BELOW just about every single domestic nameplate. Even Consumer Reports is nailing Nissan now...

[eraser2005]

It is no wonder if you see things like that...

Of course, Consumer Reports had the Ford Focus as their top pick among small sedans (take that Civic and Corolla!), but took away the honor as it didn't pass muster in the side impact test when not equipped with optional side impact air bags (standard on the others)....

When I started looking, I saw that you could get a Focus equipped with what I wanted for $12500 off the lot. The Civic was going to be $18000, and the Corolla about $16000 similarly equipped. The Civic and Corolla have higher mpg ratings, but looking at the owner reports on fueleconomy.gov, I saw that owners were reporting a much smaller gap than the EPA ratings would have you believe. It would take a LOT of driving at 3-4 mpg difference to make up for $5500 difference in purchase price. For the average driver, that difference means about $150 a year extra in gas. I don't think anyone buys a car planning to keep it for 36 years, do you?

Oh, and the Focus comes with a longer warranty, too....

[eraser2005]

When you buy a Ford product in the US, its major components will come from one of these locations. You will find Mexico is almost insignificant compared to the US (UK is up there because of their british brands, and Canada is higher because of past trade law the imports were not subjected to):

AutoAlliance International, Flat Rock MI
Atlanta Assembly, Atlanta GA
Batavia Transmission, Batavia OH
Bridgend Engine, Bridgend, UK
Buffalo Stamping, Buffalo NY
Castle Bromwich Assembly, Birmingham UK
Chicago Assembly, Chicago IL
Chicago Stamping, Chicago IL
Chihuahua Engine, Chihuahua Mexico
Cleveland Casting, Brook Park OH
Cleveland Engine #1, Brook Park OH
Cleveland Engine #2, Brook Park OH
Cologne Engine, Cologne Germany
Cuautitlan Assembly, Cuautitlan Izcalli, Mexico
Dearborn Engine, Dearborn MI
Dearborn Stamping, Dearborn MI
Dearborn Truck, Dearborn MI
Essex Engine, Windsor ON
Gaydon Assembly, Gaydon UK
Halewood Body & Assembly, Halewood UK
Halewood Transmission, Halewood UK
Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly, Hermosillo Mexico
Hiroshima Plant, Hiroshima Japan
Hofu Plant, Yamaguchi Japan
Kansas City Assembly, Claycomo MO
Kentucky Truck Assembly, Louisville KY
Land Rover Solihull Assembly, Solihill UK
Lima Engine, Lima OH
Livonia Transmission, Livonia MI
Louisville Assembly, Louisville KY
Maumee Stamping, Maumee OH
Michigan Truck, Wayne MI
Miyoshi Plany, Hiroshima Japan
Newport Pagnell Assembly, Newport Pagnell UK
Norfolk Assembly, Norfolk VA
Oakville Assembly, Oakville ON
Ohio Assembly, Avon Lake OH
Romeo Engine, Romeo MI
Sharonville Transmission, Sharonville OH
St. Louis Assembly, Hazelwood MO
St. Thomas Assembly, Talbotville ON
Twin Cities Assembly, St. Paul MN
Van Dyke Transmission, Sterling Heights MI
Volvo Body Components, Olofstrom Sweden
Volvo Car Floby, Floby Sweden
Volvo Car Plant, Uddevalla Sweden
Volvo Engine, Skovde Sweden
Volvo Gent Plant, Gent Belgium
Volvo Transmission, Koping Sweden
Walton Hills Stamping, Walton Hills OH
Wayne Stamping & Assembly, Wayne MI
Windsor Casting, Windsor ON
Windsor Engine, Windsor ON
Wixom Assembly, Wixom MI
Woodhaven Forging, Woodhaven MI
Woodhaven Stamping, Woodhaven MI

[MaDeuce]

"Thing is that for 99% of Americans and the vast majority of truck buyers that is overkill."

Yeah ... well tell that to my 10K dump trailer and 12K flatbed.

The big towing accident always happen to people when they "think" they have enough truck. Overkill as you put it, is a good thing when towing heavy. The Tundra and Titan are good little race trucks but can't pull S@it and more importantly!!!! can't STOP the load due to their wimpy size/weight/brakes.
At least in my truck (Dodge Cummins diesel) I can have an exhause brake to help stop the load.

Next time you tool down the highway and see a nice big 5th wheel camper or one of the new hotshoter's pulling a three car carrier with their Dully trucks ... imagine one of those "Toy" trucks pulling them ... then you'll understand.

Those stupid Toyota/Nissan commercials showing their "trucks" pulling BIG loads are full of crap! And will get people killed when they "think" they can pull that big new boat with their Tundra but can't STOP IT!

[kaktuskid]

The upcoming 2007 Toyota Tundra is a complete makeover, and is larger (comparable in size to full size Ford, Chevy and Dodge pickups) than the current Tundra. Current reports say that towing capacity will be "over 10,000 lbs." and that there will be "over 30 models available". Full specifications aren't available yet, though there are pictures of it on the web. I suspect there might be 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions available, though the literature available at this point is not specific. It is being built in Texas ...

It looks like Toyota copied Dodge in looks

[ChildOfThe60s]

Indeed, it would be instructive to hear from someone more knowledgeable than I on this. Which wouldn't take much.

I am not up to date at all on their current pension liability situation. I *think* I am fairly accurate on the severity of their underfunding in the 80s. Past that I have not kept up. I would be surprised to find that there is currently any kind of surplus in the funding for pensions.

Anyone out there have some resources on this info?

[38special]

I refuse to drink the jap car koolaid. Jap cars are overrated, overpriced, underpowered, underbuilt and uninspiring. Their styling looks like it came from a bad sci-fi movie set, they just seem so 'japanese'. I'm simply not in the market for a generic four door compact sedan anyway.

I still own three Fords and am very satisfied. What can I say? I like pickup trucks and muscle cars. I own an '04 F150, an '03 Mustang and an '00 Ranger. The F150 remains the best pickup truck.