Missionaries face jail in India

The Sunday Times ^ | July 30, 2006 | Dean Nelson, Delhi

[vimto]

JULIA and Richard do not look like fugitives but they could be jailed under new Indian laws to stop missionaries converting low-caste Hindus to Christianity without a magistrate’s approval. A well educated British couple with young children, they left London two years ago to teach missionary work in some of India’s poorest states, such as Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Orissa.

Last week Madhya Pradesh became the latest state to pass an anti-religious conversion bill that could leave Christian missionaries open to criminal charges. Leaders of India’s 26m Christians say the bill is an attempt to intimidate and persecute them, while increasing votes for the Hindu nationalist BJP party. Under its provisions missionaries and their converts face up to three years in jail if they do not notify a magistrate of their intentions.

Christian leaders also fear the initiative will encourage attacks against them. India’s National Commission for Minorities has voiced concern about incidents in Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan in which orphanages and schools have been targeted.

Last month police in Madhya Pradesh raided a Bible study group and arrested worshippers after complaints that they were converting Hindus. Nuns have been raped and several priests have been murdered in the past seven years. Last year 11 members of a Hindu mob that burnt an Australian missionary and his two young sons to death as they slept had their convictions overturned.

Hindu fundamentalists claim missionaries, mostly American and South Korean, prey on the ignorance of lower castes and persuade them to turn against their culture. The missionaries say they provide education and healthcare and teach the Bible to untouchables whose own religion treats them as outcasts.

[Always Right]

I think if the US ever saw hundreds of highly organized and well-financed foreign missionaries doing all on their power to lead vulnerable people from Christianity, there would be an uproar and Christian evangelicals would be at the head of the pack.

If they are providing food and clothing and other things for them, have at it. There would not be an uproar. There would probably be Christian organizations going there to compete. Missionaries who try to coerce people to convert probably are not winning too many people over. Missionaries will win more people over by setting a good example.

I think you were right to characterize these hypothetical missionaries to Appalachia as trespassers. What about real missionaries to Himalaya?

I am not there, so I have no idea if what they do is trespassing. I would hope they would have people come to them for help and only go to people's homes if invited.

[mdmathis6]

Conversion scam hunhhh? You don't know "jack" about the Holy Spirit do you!?

Oh how horrible, that lower caste folk are being taught to defy customs and take power for them-selves and to escape the hopeless despair that Satan would leave them trapped in, (like butterflies trapped in Hindu amber) in this 21st century....I hope they turn India completely upside down and turn India into a truely representative republic!

[Gengis Khan]

The stuff you post has to do with rebells.......

 

Rebels?? The people who kill/behead innocent women and children are simply rebels according to you? I can understand your affinity for such people judging from the way you try to defend the misdeeds of your co-religionists.

 

There is nothing foreign about them, except perhaps how they fraudualantly get foreign donations.

 

There is as much the foreign element about them as much as the Saudi Arabia funded wahabbi religious fundamentalism rising in certain parts of India. Moreover the Christians have religious preachers coming from abroad to preside over the evangelization of India through use of terror. Most of the activities of the Church have been oriented in that direction by the missionaries.

 

Trying to use this to justify banning missionaries who are by in large doing great work getting desparately needed supplies to people is just plain crazy.

 

Desperately needed supplies? Is there another Tsunami? I can understand the presence of the Tsunami vultures in the south but up there in NE? Unless you are talking about "desperately needed supplies" for the terrorists.

 

 

This ban is to cleans Christianity out of India.

 

Yeah. Heard enough of those conspiracy theories already.

[vimto]

"Render to Caesar."

"...and unto God what is God's"

go with the full quote if you want to quote the Lord Jesus.

[Gengis Khan]

"You don't know "jack" about the Holy Spirit do you!?"

Oh no I dont know "jack" about the Holy Spirit. I haven't been "saved" yet.

[SupplySider]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about what the reaction would be if America was subject to the same kind of missions as India. I don't think it would be seen as welcome charity, healthy competition, and a glorious example of free speech, and most especially not by the folks who sponsor missions in Asia and Africa.

You characterized missionaries to Appalacia are trespassers, but those to Himalaya, it's maybe yes, maybe no, it all depends? Seems like a double standard.

[Always Right]

You characterized missionaries to Appalacia are trespassers

It is not how I characterize, it is how the people in the Applacia characterize them. Anybody who they don't know is a trespasser and could get shot. Black, white, red, green, Christian, wiccan whatever.

[SupplySider]

Oh, Ok, I see your point. I stand corrected.

[Always Right]

Rebels?? The people who kill/behead innocent women and children are simply rebels according to you? I can understand your affinity for such people judging from the way you try to defend the misdeeds of your co-religionists.

Umm, they aren't foreign missionaries. You can call them rebels, terrorists, whatever, but using their activities to condemn Christian missionaries is just wrong. They are local tribes people who want to create their own independant state. You are being dishonest in using their activities to condemn missionaries.

[Gengis Khan]

"In my opinion this kind hubris has little to do with Jesus, no matter what these so-called missionaries think."

I absolutely agree.

[BritExPatInFla]

I am fully in favour of the anti-conversion laws. The sooner they come the better. We have had enough of this conversion scam.

One thing I have always wondered about countries where these missionaries go. Are they truly wanted there by a large percentage of the general population? And of those that want missionaries there, how many want them there for the religious conversion, and how many want them simply for whatever food and aid they may be bringing? The might want the carrot (Aid) but not the stick (Religious conversion). If someone is going to do charitable work, feed the hungry, clothe the poor, that's great, but do the people getting the help have to accept whatever indoctrination comes with it?

[SupplySider]

By the way, I am not opposed to all religious groups trying to help in foreign countries. I think there are great organizations who offer humanitarian aid, and will discuss their spirtual views with those who ask without actively proselytizing or attempting "conversions". It's the spiritual chauvinists I have a problem with.

[Gengis Khan]

They are local tribes people who want to create their own independant state.

 

In that case why do the Christian terrorists kill their own tribes men who have not yet converted or have refused to convert to Christianity? This is nothing but the same kind of religious ethnic cleansing that we are witnessing in Kashmir. While Kashmir is a religious war waged by our neighbours. North East is being funded by American Christian organisations. The demand for self determination is nothing but an excuse for what in reality is their agenda to establish a Theocratic Christian state and purge out all the Hindus, Buddhists, Animists, and other "pagans". The terrorists are being assisted in their "spiritual quest" by the foreign missionaries not just through indoctrinate but also materially and monetarily. You are being too quick to absolve these criminals (so called "Missionaries") of their guilt but there is a good reason why the Indian government is coming down hard on them.

[Gengis Khan]

Good question.

[Always Right]

In that case why do the Christian terrorists kill their own tribes men who have not yet converted or have refused to convert to Christianity? This is nothing but the same kind of religious ethnic cleansing that we are witnessing in Kashmir.

It is absolute sick what is going on, but these are not foreigners. These are people who want independance, and unfortunately they have been mislead and believe they are doing it for Christianity. It truely is sad, but does not represent the beliefs of 99.999% of Christians.

North East is being funded by American Christian organisations.

And that is a bunch of crap. If American money is being funneled to these groups, it is not knowingly. Americans would not support such acts. The propaganda that is printed about this is moonbat worthy. Nothing but a bunch of anti-Christian, anti-American lies.

[Gengis Khan]

Check these two articles:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/050116/139/2j1rp.html

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jan/24shoba.htm

An example of the kind of Missionary charity work that goes on in India. We call them the Tsunami vultures.

[Always Right]

I am sure there are many examples of this, although I would hope not a majority of missionaries act that way. I think it is a poor way to try to win people over. You should win people over by showing them love and generosity, not be coercion. It is in poor taste and not a very good example of Christian behavior, but not criminal.

[Gengis Khan]

The independence thing is plain bull crap. (It almost sounds like the routine Paki government rhetoric). The religious genocide is instigated by missionaries some of whom happens to be from outside India. There is no denying that.

" If American money is being funneled to these groups, it is not knowingly."

It does not matter if its knowingly or unknowingly. The money still comes from the Christian organisation based in US regardless. First you say the money comes "not knowingly" and then you go on to call it "anti-Christian, anti-American" lies and "propaganda". Make up your mind on what you are trying to say.

[DarkSavant]

I'm not afraid to read the Bible, why are people who read the Bible afraid to read the Bhagavad Gita?

Catholic, and read the Gita.

There are similiarities between Catholic Theology and Hindu Philosophy, and one of my coworkers is hindu, and one of the most gentle people I've ever met. She's probably a better Catholic in how she lives than some Catholics, but that doesn't mean her beliefs are equivalent to my own.

The problem with pluralism is that by elevating every religion to the same level is that it dilutes them all.

One great Hindu teacher said a few decades ago to worship Jesus and Krishna together

And what about the parts of their teachings that conflict? My experience is that they will use wishy-washy reasoning to equate what Jesus said with what Krishna did. Eastern eligions are especially notorious for doing this. In the Gita Krishna told his servant to fight, for the sole reason that that was the caste he was born into. That is quite different than what I would expect Christ to say.

I respect your religion, so the Hindus should respect ours and allow for evangelization, which is a key ingredient of Christianity. Hindus are allowed to do the same.

[Always Right]

It does not matter if its knowingly or unknowingly. The money still comes from the Christian organisation based in US regardless. First you say the money comes "not knowingly" and then you go on to call it "anti-Christian, anti-American" lies and "propaganda".

They are lies and propaganda. These sources you post claim that American's must know where the money is going. That is horse manure. Americans would have no way of tracking that money. Secondly, they offer little evidence that American money is going to these groups. Considering the leap of faith they made for the first accusation, it is quite possible their other claims are just as dubious.