Settlement appears close on Indian trust (8 Billion dollar offer on the table)

AP on Yahoo ^ | 7/24/06 | Jennifer Talhelm - ap

[NormsRevenge]

WASHINGTON - American Indians suing the government over billions of dollars in lost royalties say they are contemplating an offer by members of Congress to resolve their lawsuit for $8 billion.

The offer is considerably lower than the $27.5 billion plaintiffs offered to settle for a year ago. But plaintiffs say they are considering it seriously, bringing them closer than ever to ending the lawsuit, which has bogged down the Interior and Justice departments for 10 years.

"Eight billion dollars is something I wish was higher, but I'm glad they were able to bring something forward that was equitable," the lead plaintiff, Blackfeet Indian Elouise Cobell, said in an interview. "Can we ever get near the total fair amount that should be given to individual Indians? I don't think so. I think individual Indian account holders would support $8 billion."

Cobell filed the class-action lawsuit in 1996, accusing the government of mishandling more than $100 billion in oil, gas, timber, grazing and other royalties from Indians' lands dating back to 1887.

In what has become a messy, protracted court battle, the plaintiffs have won a series of district court victories. U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth held interior secretaries Bruce Babbitt and Gale Norton in contempt and ordered the Interior Department to disconnect its computers from the Internet to secure Indian trust data.

But the plaintiffs were dealt a blow earlier this month when the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ordered Lamberth removed from the case, saying he had lost his objectivity.

Plaintiffs offered a settlement package last year, and Senate Indian Affairs Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz., and House Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo, R-Calif., have introduced bills that would resolve the case.

But the settlement amount has been a sticking point.

Cobell and one of her attorneys, Keith Harper, said Monday that officials for the two committees suggested the $8 billion figure almost three weeks ago.

Spokespeople for McCain and Pombo said they could not comment on the settlement and that committee meetings to work out the details would be held in the next two months.

Interior Department spokesman Shane Wolfe said department officials are continuing to work with the plaintiffs, but he also declined to talk about specifics.

Cobell said the Indian plaintiffs want to settle and move on.

"A settlement is a way of moving forward to get justice to the many Indian account holders who are elderly and in need of justice," Cobell said Monday.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

This isn't very similar to reparations for slavery (to preempt some freepers). The federal government broke a lot of agreements with various Amerindian tribes, and illegally moved some from titled lands.

[Mr. Brightside]

U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ordered Lamberth removed from the case, saying he had lost his objectivity.

Very interesting. I'd like to know more about that. (and now many times an appeals court has ever done removed a judge for loss of objectivity)

[NormsRevenge]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=lamberth

2nd article and 3rd down too have some good info

[alloysteel]

They will never settle, and they will never move on. Oh, they will accept the $8 billion, and Great White Father in Washington will think it has been settled, but a new generation, 10, 20, 30 years from now, will be back reopening the old cases and demanding a new review, this time because of all the air that got breathed up, or something, or of all the wild game that were displaced by corn fields and suburban development.

[Mr. Brightside]

Thanks.

Pretty weird. From the Whitewater days, I thought Lambreth was one of the good guys.

But in that article he sounds almost like Ward Churchill.

[bpjam]

Mostly what has happened is that the BIA and Dept of Interior has non-computerized accounting systems which date back to the 70's. They literally have no idea where billions of dollars are which are due to hundreds of tribes for oil and gas royalties, land leases and a variety of other payments. These are reparations but rather money which was due the tribes which was collected by the Federal government and then simply NOT accounted for and then when the monies were supposed to be paid out it was discovered that there was no actual money in the accounts which were supposed to have balances.

I have a close associate who did some software work for the Interior Dept on issues like this and it was determined that there were handfuls of agencies which could not be updated because their systems were so old and antiquated that there was literally no way to bring them up to date or integrate them with other agency networks and databases.

[anchorclankor]

1. Given a golden opportunity the government will cheat you. 2. Government shouldn't be in the indian business.

[art_rocks]

Wasn't some of the problem due to the leases for the gas and oil. The rates the government arranged for oil and gas leases were so far below market value and there appeared to be no one from the government protecting the Indians interest.

If I ran a trust fund like the government, I would have been indicted, found guilty and been sentenced to a long prison stay.

I agree with the Indians and part of the agreement should be that the government no longer manages this trust since they failed in this endeavor

[NormsRevenge]

..he sounds almost like Ward Churchill..

U.S. District Court Judge Royce Lamberth is seen in his office in this Nov. 23, 2005, file photo in Washington. Lamberth was removed Tuesday, July 11, 2006, from a 10-year-old lawsuit in which thousands of American Indians claim the government mismanaged billions of dollars in federal trust funds. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)

[MACVSOG68]

You are wrong on a number of issues.

Mostly what has happened is that the BIA and Dept of Interior has non-computerized accounting systems which date back to the 70's.

The agencies involved, BIA, OST, BLM and MMS all have extensive, modern computer systems. Some are better than others, but all of their data respecting the allotted Indians are computerized.

They literally have no idea where billions of dollars are which are due to hundreds of tribes for oil and gas royalties, land leases and a variety of other payments.

Simply untrue. If you go back to 1872, yes, many of the records are missing. Little to nothing of any relevance is missing from 1970 forward, and there is no issue with respect to missing records from that time frame. Even going back to the 1800s, most of the records are intact. As for the original allottees that brought the suit, an audit of their properties back to 1909 found that approximately $67 was mispaid. To date, the plaintiffs have never proffered a single legitimate method for estimated what missing monies there were. Nor have they demonstrated any missing monies.

As for the tribes you refer to, this suit is based on the allotted Indians, not the tribes.

These are reparations but rather money which was due the tribes which was collected by the Federal government and then simply NOT accounted for and then when the monies were supposed to be paid out it was discovered that there was no actual money in the accounts which were supposed to have balances.

This is absolutely untrue. The issue is a record keeping one, not one of "missing" money. During the times when money may have been misappropriated by paying it out to the wrong allottees, it was all in the BIA, almost all of its employees being Indian. The biggest issue they have during those times were keeping the allotted interest percentages correct. You can have hundreds of allottees and their successors on a lease, with any one sometimes receiving one cent or less a month.

I have a close associate who did some software work for the Interior Dept on issues like this and it was determined that there were handfuls of agencies which could not be updated because their systems were so old and antiquated that there was literally no way to bring them up to date or integrate them with other agency networks and databases.

Details?

[MACVSOG68]

Wasn't some of the problem due to the leases for the gas and oil.

Yes, as well as grazing and timber.

The rates the government arranged for oil and gas leases were so far below market value and there appeared to be no one from the government protecting the Indians interest.

How so? Do you know what the royalty rates were?

I agree with the Indians and part of the agreement should be that the government no longer manages this trust since they failed in this endeavor

Why do you agree with the Indians? How much should they be paid and why? Are you aware, the Interior Department has tried to turn many of the allotted leases back to tribal ownership?

[bpjam]

I do have details but I can't provide them on a public forum since most of the parties are subject to confidentiality agreements. But the modern computer systems you speak of would be news to the last two Interior Secretaries who cancelled IT contracts because they were too costly to convert them to a standard which would allow them to interact with Treasury or Ag Departments.

I've hired two past BIA Commissioners and one Asst Commissioner. I'm pretty familiar with the downfalls of having Indian employees presiding over Indian Affairs simply because they are Indians. But I haven't dealt with a tribe yet who knew how much money they were due and because of that you have generations of people who aren't keeping track and BIA who didn't keep track. The money is all somewhere but the ledgers are further from accurate than Enron finances in many, many cases. Considering how the Federal government loses $1B a year just in the IRS alone, losing billions isn't exactly lowering the bar for the Interior Department.

[MACVSOG68]

But the modern computer systems you speak of would be news to the last two Interior Secretaries who cancelled IT contracts because they were too costly to convert them to a standard which would allow them to interact with Treasury or Ag Departments.

I can tell you that MMS has developed two state of the art computer systems that are internet based and do interact with Treasury. Since MMS collects the lion's share of the monies, not sure what you are referring to. BLM likewise has developed a new system (at a tremendous cost). BIA's system, to the best of my knowledge is quite alive and well. All three connect with each other and with OST. Not sure why they need to connect to Agriculture, so cannot answer that one.

But I haven't dealt with a tribe yet who knew how much money they were due and because of that you have generations of people who aren't keeping track and BIA who didn't keep track.

I can tell you that all Indian monies go into an interest bearing account. Each check is marked for either a specific tribe or allotted. Each month, every tribe and state gets a statement of account showing exactly where the funds came from and all details of the transactions. Many of the tribes participate in audits of the payors. The tribes are directly involved in policy by being members of the State and Tribal Audit Committee, and in addition participate fully in quarterly high level policy meetings with MMS. Finally, the MMS, BLM, BIA and tribes participate in a quarterly policy meeting strictly for Indian issues. All tribes and Allottee representatives have access to the data bases, and all tribes are participants in the development of rules, software development, policy and all other changes. Lastly, tribes can request and be granted compacts, where they are paid to collect their own royalties.

The money is all somewhere but the ledgers are further from accurate than Enron finances in many, many cases. Considering how the Federal government loses $1B a year just in the IRS alone, losing billions isn't exactly lowering the bar for the Interior Department.

As I indicated in an earlier post, I can't speak for the 1800s, but I do know that all Indian money that comes in is fully controlled and tracked from either the check or EFT until taken by the tribe. All monies for oil and gas and rentals are controlled by MMS. BIA approves leases, and they are managed by BLM. You can suggest that billion have been lost in Interior, but it would be helpful for you to show how. No evidence of any loss of funds has ever been provided by any tribes or allottee associations. Because of the record keeping problems of 50 years ago and earlier, back to the 1800s, the allottees are claiming $178 billion as "damages", but are willing to accept $27 billion. The only audit of allottee accounts back to 1909 showed that a total $67 was mispaid. For the past 30 years, the Indian and state accounts have been under a microscope by internal auditors, the IG, GAO, and several congressional committees.