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To: Republicain
To say that “Muslims” or “Islamic culture” created the civilizations of the Middle East can be compared to an illiterate person storming into the planet’s largest library, killing all the librarians and then claiming to have written all the books there.

Excellent article! Much of this nonsense about the glorious days of Muslim Spain came from the Spanish historian America Castro, who was a "progre" ("progressive," i.e. leftist) who, for various reasons, wanted to attack Spain's conception of its past. Needless to say, his views were eagerly accepted by other progres in the academic world, both in Spain and the US and other countries.

The result was a bizarre view that gave Islam credit for Spanish culture. This ignores the fact that prior to the Islamic invasion, Spain was a seat of learning; recall, for example, the great bishop St. Isidore of Sevilla's compendium of all human knowledge, the Etymologiae, written in Latin in Sevilla about 100 years before the Islamic invasion (in fact, before the birth of Islam). It drew on Aristotle and other classical sources and was a wildly popular book that was still in use in the 15th century.

Spain had been Rome's crowning jewel of a colony, and many poets, scholars and emperors came from Spain. With the fall of Rome and the Visigothic invasions, all of the Roman empire suffered. Spain was conquered by the Visigoths, who were not a very learned people and were also not Catholic but Arian (a heresy that was supposedly one of the things that Mohammed drew upon for his own "religion"). Even so, the Spanish bishops eventually succeeded in converting the Visigothic kings to orthodox Christianity, and Spain began to become more influential in the new post-Roman world. It was the seat of many Church councils and educational undertakings.

All of this stopped when the Muslims invaded. Some of them later, although regarded as heretical by other more orthodox Muslims, took an interest in the learning that had been assembled by Spanish Christians and Jews prior to the invasion. Interestingly enough, and not mentioned in the article, is that every time particular Muslim rulers or groups became more "moderate," they were then overrun by more "orthodox" Muslims from the ME. Sound familiar?

The Muslims got into Spain at the invitation of one of the warring Visigothic kings, who thought they would help him defeat his rival. Zapatero is doing the same thing. He is using Islam to attempt to defeat his rival, which is essentially all non-leftist Spain. The result is going to be exactly the same as it was in the 8th century. Conquest.

12 posted on 07/24/2006 4:22:24 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius

http://muhammadanism.org/Canon_Sell/default.htm

Edward Sell's Books - pdf downloads.

In Spain a strict prohibition was issued against the study of Greek philosophy, and many valuable works were committed to the flames. Soon after the rule of the Moors Spain began to decline. The study of philosophy came to an end, and liberal culture sank under the pressure of the hard and fast dogmatic system of Islam." — p. 287-8. The Faith of Islam


19 posted on 07/24/2006 4:34:16 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: livius
As far as I know the only thing Islam has given us is nothing.

The 0.

It seems appropriate somehow.

34 posted on 07/24/2006 6:10:49 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers three choices: fight, submit, or die.)
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To: livius
Just to add, all this alleged glorious Islamic science was in fact Assyrian science that Muslims robbed from Assyrians. One of better Islamic hoaxes so far.

Science as such requires critical inquisitive mind and this is not sometthing fostered by Islamic teaching, quite opposite. Asking questions and finding solutions is not a part of Islamic mindset and it shows - after getting a headstart with appropriated Assyrian science, Muslims did nothing with it.

44 posted on 07/24/2006 9:00:34 AM PDT by DTA
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To: livius
Such things as you relate are "forgotten'..ignored by apologists for Islam.....We are all "Daniel Pearls" to them if they acquire power over us. Why folks don't realise this is beyond me.........

I have never heard the 'feds' say we should negotiate with cartel type drug dealers who are just as cruel to their enemies...Think all those heads found lately in Mexico.......of which few are aware in these United States.

47 posted on 07/24/2006 1:48:54 PM PDT by litehaus
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To: livius

I so much appreciate your posts.


51 posted on 07/25/2006 7:30:00 PM PDT by happygrl
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