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Reading Jefferson in Tehran
National Post ^ | 2006-07-22 | Robert Fulford

Posted on 07/22/2006 6:10:48 AM PDT by Clive

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1 posted on 07/22/2006 6:10:48 AM PDT by Clive
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To: Alberta's Child; albertabound; AntiKev; backhoe; Byron_the_Aussie; Cannoneer No. 4; ...

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2 posted on 07/22/2006 6:11:24 AM PDT by Clive
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To: Clive
This disaster:

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This led to this:

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Which inexorably led to this:

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3 posted on 07/22/2006 6:19:03 AM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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To: Clive

Her misguided support for the Ayatollah can perhaps be better forgiven by considering the fact that millions in this country were similarly behind James Earl Carter.

The path to mature wisdom often travels through the folly of youth.


4 posted on 07/22/2006 6:31:07 AM PDT by NicknamedBob (Mom said to call a spade a spade. Dad taught me what to call it when you trip over it in the shed.)
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To: Mr.Smorch

From themiddleeastnow.com website:

Iran's axis with the Third Reich began during the prewar years, when it welcomed Nazi Gestapo agents and other operatives to Tehran, allowing them to use the city as a base for Middle East agitation against the British and the region's Jews.

So intense was the shah's identification with the Third Reich that in 1935 he renamed his ancient country "Iran," which in Farsi means Aryan and refers to the Proto-Indo-European lineage that Nazi racial theorists and Persian ethnologists cherished. End quote.

Iran/Persia was rotten from day one--sorry, but the Shah was as homicidal as any Persian Dictator before or after--plus he was a Nazi and was filled, as were the leading intellectuals of the day with Jew hatred on the one hand, and fawning admiration for Hitler on the other.

If Iran is utterly devastated by War with Israel and the West it will be a long overdue righteous judgment on an evil, sick society.


5 posted on 07/22/2006 6:39:31 AM PDT by the anti-mahdi
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To: the anti-mahdi

That's true enought but my question to you is would it be better to have the Shah's regime in power or the spawn of the satanic Khomeini?


6 posted on 07/22/2006 6:45:42 AM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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To: the anti-mahdi
So intense was the shah's identification with the Third Reich that in 1935 he renamed his ancient country "Iran," which in Farsi means Aryan and refers to the Proto-Indo-European lineage that Nazi racial theorists and Persian ethnologists cherished. End quote.

Not the same shah. The Allies deposed Reza Shah in 1941 and replaced him with his more cooperative son, Mohammer Reza Pahlavi, who reigned until 1979.

7 posted on 07/22/2006 6:57:53 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Clive
She still believes in a just future for Iranians, she doesn't want the U.S. to enforce regime change and she has enough spirit to keep fighting cases in court, even when the chances of justice are slim.

Ok, so she was on a death squad list, "realizes" that the revolution completely destroyed her right to be treated like a human being, and yet she feels this way.

I personally think she just doesn't get it.

8 posted on 07/22/2006 7:08:29 AM PDT by Jalapeno
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To: the anti-mahdi

Good point, BUT, the shah might have been a bastard but he was our bastard.

Jimmy Carter's inability to understand "real politics" and innate cowardice made matters much worse and gave us this World War III.
So instead of.... "the Shah who was as homicidal as any Persian Dictator before or after--plus he was a Nazi and was filled, as were the leading intellectuals of the day with Jew hatred "

...we now have Mr.Amadinnerjacket who is ...as homicidal as any Persian Dictator but with a nuke and a few million crazies...
Which begs the question: Do we leave him alone or do we take him out???


9 posted on 07/22/2006 7:09:55 AM PDT by UltraKonservativen (( YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!))
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To: Mr.Smorch

It really doesn't matter now does it? It is a what if Kennedy had not been assassinated parlor discussion.

I will say that it is apparent that "secular" Baath Socialist ruled Syria is in this up to their neck. I suspect the Peacock Throne would have evolved in the same direction. They all take your money (foreign aid) they stab you in the back at the UN, and eventually, they fund and/or direct terror, employing their resources either in your face or or covertly, utilizing plausible deniability (when they fear consequences).

This is Islam and the Shah merely was a secularist Nazi rahter than an Islamo-Nazi. There is no exception to the rule. Egypt and Jordan take the money, stab the back of the donor, and then use the funds to militarily and politically back the utter destruction of Israel and the defeat of the West. Only out of fear do they occasionally more or less pretend not to be so motivated as their actions clearly prove. Which is not difficult because our media refuses to accuse them by re-printing their state run media which is thoroughly anti-Israeli and anti-West and consistently, virulently anti-US.

The only sources provided to Americans in the MSM of Islamic "journalism" are the islamic authored articles and sources that pay lip service to some blandly moderate impulse as in, well Hezbollah is adventurous--not consulting with the community--acting on its own--HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Take that Iran!!! Take that Syria!!! While the Arab street dances and cheers for every dead Irraeli.

We will either devastate Islam or Islam will devastate us. All else is parlor talk.


10 posted on 07/22/2006 7:10:56 AM PDT by the anti-mahdi
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To: Clive
I will take issue with one point. The U.S. governments that dealt with the Shah over the decades found him to be anything but a puppet. See William Simon's A Time for Truth.
11 posted on 07/22/2006 7:15:30 AM PDT by Christopher Lincoln
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To: ReignOfError; All
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This is a good book with lots of good information about the Pahlavi dynasty. ReignOfTerror is correct, anti-mahdi was referring to Reza Shah who was an Iranian military officer created by the Brits in order to stop bolshevik penetration into Iran in the early 1920's.

Reza Shah renamed Persia to the current Iran because he said that Persia was a name given to his country by the Greeks.

Muhammed Reza Shah, the son of Reza Shah was no boyscout, but he was a staunch supporter of America. When the Arabs embargoed oil to the West in the 1970's because of Israel, the Shah kept the oil flowing to the West. When the bumbling carter greased the skids for the Shah, America lost a stalwart ally in this unstable area. As a matter of fact, Israel would not have to be doing what it has to do in South Lebanon, if the leftist American government would have stood behind the Shah in his moment of need.

12 posted on 07/22/2006 7:16:12 AM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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To: the anti-mahdi
We will either devastate Islam or Islam will devastate us.

We will either devastate Islam or Islam will devastate us.
We will either devastate Islam or Islam will devastate us.
We will either devastate Islam or Islam will devastate us.
We will either devastate Islam or Islam will devastate us.

13 posted on 07/22/2006 7:23:41 AM PDT by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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To: ReignOfError

Indeed!!! Now track the White Revolution the son imposed in an attempt to modernize Iran.

He even used the tried and true, five year plan soviet style central planning; re-locations of villagers, state funded (still in existence) and owned industries, giant and mostly useless state projects.

The Shah was a despot. He was our despot, but he still was as unreliable an ally over the long term as any despot can be. Once he was gone another rose to take his place.

This is why Islamo-Nazism (national socialism imposed in a dictatorship in an Islamic country is indistinguishable in effect from the Islamic paradise of the Ayatollah. The people at the top own everything, the villagers and the bazaars cower in fear and uncertainty.

The Supreme Council of Iran contains the richest mullahs you will likely find anywhere. They own and run everything.

This last fact is the only restraint they may have to delay the descent into the Abyss they are looking into (the mullahs). It is nice to be rich and own everythng. It is not nice to be devastated and reduced to garbage dump gleaning because you went to war with the wrong people.


14 posted on 07/22/2006 7:24:22 AM PDT by the anti-mahdi
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To: the anti-mahdi

"It really doesn't matter now does it?"

It doesn't matter for America whether it's the fanatical shia clergy running Iran or a nationalist pro-American Pahlavi regime! That's absurd and utterly ridiculous on its face.


15 posted on 07/22/2006 7:38:16 AM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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To: Clive

That was a biased little piece


16 posted on 07/22/2006 7:42:12 AM PDT by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: UltraKonservativen

Don't be confused by the different shah's being discussed


17 posted on 07/22/2006 7:47:32 AM PDT by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: Mr.Smorch

The newbie seems to be a 'destroy the entire country of Iran" proponent.


18 posted on 07/22/2006 7:49:15 AM PDT by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: nuconvert
Yeah I know. I think a lot of people are disgusted with Iran, but it is important I think to distinguish the Iranians from this illegitimate shia entity. I was just over in Tampa on thursday and I had a great conversation with an Iranian lady. She remarked about how her relations in Iran are panic stricken about the mullahs, and what the mullahs continue to do to the Iranian people. I know this is anecdotal, but she points out that 70% of the Iranian population are under 21 and most of them are pro-Western in their orientation and sympathies.

America should step up it's support for the anti-clerical forces in Iran, and constantly paint the shia entity as a shia version of the taliban. However, if the "negotiations" over Iran's quest for nuclear weapons fail, we have no choice but to take out the Iranian nuclear sights.

19 posted on 07/22/2006 8:13:20 AM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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To: nuconvert

This "newbie" spent twenty years as a naval intelligence officer and from 1988 until retirement from the US Navy worked counter and anti-terrorism in many assignments, followed by a career in the operations directorate of DIA retiring in 2005. Upon retirement, this newbie spent a year tour in Afghanistan (third tour in country) as a private security director through 2006.

I have been home now for several months and will discuss any aspect of Islam to include every sect, terror groups, methodology, ideology, and cultural-political realities of the Worldwide Islamic community.

One fact I may offer is that while an agnostic or back-slidden Jew or Christian is just one "sale" away from a commitment to the faith by an earnest proselytizer of the faith. Once the sale is made the newly minted believer will become a person more engaged in charity, striving for patience, immersed in prayer for others, forgiveness of those who offend, introspection, and earnest effort to become guided in all things by principles of love and humility.

Good muslims are, by definition, in every authorized Islamic text you may examine, Quran, Hadith, Sunnah, or school of Isalmic Jurisprudence, exhorted to aggressively seek out and target the unbeliever and backslidden, to murder, rape, and conquer same in the furtherance of a violent, corrosive, and undeniably evil death cult.

Bad muslims--the agnostic, the backslidden, are just one sale away from joining the good muslims in murder and mayhem. The ones who resist are targeted for death by their "good" co-religionists.

Other than my background, I remain humbly a newbie.

BTW in the course of my professional life I employed and directed many muslims and depended on them in many instances to watch my back and to faithfully discharge their duties.

The death of one human is regrettable and tragic. War kills people and breaks things beyond repair.

In a war I must choose between my people dying or the enemy dying. In this war they made the rules, (there are no rules) they started the war, they are commited to destroy our civilization and imlement their own on our ashes. We need to finish it before they finish us.


20 posted on 07/22/2006 8:20:24 AM PDT by the anti-mahdi
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