The truth of the matter is that many Ukranians supported this man, Field Marshal Mannerheim, who commanded the Finnish forces when the bolsheviks attacked Finland in 1939.
Posted on 07/19/2006 1:43:54 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
KIEV, Ukraine | Ukraine's government said Wednesday it had drafted a bill offering anti-Soviet guerrillas the same privileges currently provided to World War II veterans - a measure likely to meet a strong opposition in parliament.
Deputy Prime Minister Vyacheslav Kyrylenko said the measure, which is subject to approval by parliament, would apply to members of militant groups that fought against the Soviets in 1939-1956. The bill would require additional spending of about $9.9 million, he said in a statement.
Since Western-leaning President Viktor Yushchenko came to power last year, his government has been striving to win recognition for the 100,000 partisans who fought both the Nazis and the Soviets as Ukrainian patriots who struggled to create an independent homeland.
Communists and war veterans say such a move would be a mockery of the Soviet Red Army dead.
About 10,000 partisans are believed to still be alive, while there are 3.8 million World War II veterans still living.
Hostility toward the partisans runs deep in Ukraine because in the war's early years, the anti-Soviet partisans aligned themselves with the Nazis who overran the country before the Red Army drove them out in 1944.
During Soviet times, Ukrainian schoolchildren were taught that the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and its guerrilla force, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, were enemies of the people who committed horrific atrocities alongside Nazi troops.
An estimated 7 million Ukrainians died in the fighting against the Nazis, and 2.4 million people were sent to Nazi concentration camps. Yushchenko's father was a Soviet Red Army soldier who spent four years in a Nazi camp.
Yushchenko has repeatedly urged Red Army veterans and anti-Soviet guerrillas to forgive each other for the sake of the national unity, but his attempts have caused several protests by Communists and other pro-Russian parties.
The new bill is likely to meet strong resistance from the majority coalition in the Ukrainian parliament consisting of the pro-Russian Party of Regions, Communists and Socialists.
Communist lawmaker Petro Tsybenko strongly criticized the government's move. "These people supported the Nazis. It is immoral and criminal to give them the same status and benefits the Red Army veterans have," he told The Associated Press.
Any WW2 history buffs want to explain Finland while we are at it?
Where they in any way allied with Germany? Didn't they just fight a soviet invasion like Poland did in 39? Did they basically get screwed when the Soviets became our "allies"?
How about all the Ukrainian dead from Stalin's terror famine, purges and gulag? Most of the Ukrainian partisans fought the Nazis and the communists both.
The truth of the matter is that many Ukranians supported this man, Field Marshal Mannerheim, who commanded the Finnish forces when the bolsheviks attacked Finland in 1939.
Finnish-Russian War
Finnish-Russian War, 1939–40, war between Finland and the Soviet Union. After World War II broke out in Sept., 1939, the USSR, never on cordial terms with Finland, took advantage of its nonaggression pact (Aug., 1939) with Germany to make several far-reaching demands on Finland. These demands included the demilitarization of the Mannerheim Line (the Finnish fortification line across the Karelian Isthmus just N of Leningrad [St. Petersburg]), a 30-year lease on Hanko as a naval base, and the cession of several islands in the Gulf of Finland. In return, Russia offered extensive but valueless districts along the eastern border of Finland. Finland balked; negotiations broke down in November. After alleging (Nov. 26) that Finnish artillery had fired on Russian troops, the USSR, denouncing (Nov. 28) the Russo-Finnish nonaggression pact of 1932 and breaking off (Nov. 28) diplomatic relations, attacked on Nov. 30. The Russians first concentrated their efforts on the eastern border of Finland, but the Finns, superior in winter warfare and ably commanded by Field Marshall Mannerheim, repulsed attacks at Lake Ladoga, Suomussalmi, Salla, and Ivalo. World sympathy was with Finland. Sweden and Norway sent volunteers and supplies, and some supplies came from France and Great Britain. Finally, however, small Finland was no match for the USSR. Air bombardments and well-prepared frontal attacks (Feb., 1940) on the Karelian Isthmus brought Finnish resistance to the verge of collapse. In the peace treaty signed on Mar. 12, Finland ceded part of the Karelian Isthmus, Vyborg (Viipuri), and several border territories to the USSR. In June, 1941, warfare was resumed between Finland and Russia and became part of the general world conflagration (see Finland).
See M. Jakobson, The Diplomacy of the Winter War (1961), and A. L. Paley, The Russo-Finnish War (1973).
The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Copyright © 2006, Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.
Isn't this typical of how Russia operates - stealth and deceit.
Ukraine and not Russia lost more in WWII than any other country - as a percent, Russias losses were far exceeded by Poland, Yugoslavia, etc.
I am sick and tired of hearing of the Great Patriotic War porpaganda - which Russia started along with their ally Hitler.
http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-29.html
Plus, Stalin killed more Ukrainians in 1932 than all combat casualties of WWI --- on both sides!
"Isn't this typical of how Russia operates - stealth and deceit."
I believe that the bolsheviks destroyed mother Russia and the Ukraine as well. As Ronald Reagan said, when dealing with communists, "trust but verify." I guess the same could be said in dealing with islamfascists and RATs here in the USA. I think Reed, Reid, Kennedy, sKerry, Clinton are all a bunch of liars and really demonstrate the similarity between our farleft rats and bolshevik communists.
"Ukraine and not Russia lost more in WWII than any other country - as a percent, Russias losses were far exceeded by Poland, Yugoslavia, etc."
1.) Ukraine had more Nazi collaboraters than the Russians.
2.) More Ukrainians served as Nazi Concentration Camp guards than any Russians.
3.) Ukrainians belonging to Ukrainian nationalist groups in Western Ukraine enacted pogroms on Jews and Poles - killing thousands - FOR THE NAZIS
4.) Ukrainians in the UNA/UNSO enaged in sabotage on US territory during WWII killing Americans. Spanalot is a supporter (maybe even a member?) of these organizations. Refuses to condemn them - his "loyalty" to the US is in name only.
5.) BELARUS per capita lost more than Ukraine and Russia during WWII. One HUGE difference. Not many Belarusians were involved with the Nazis - a big difference when you compare their actions in WWII to Western Ukrainians.
"1.) Ukraine had more Nazi collaboraters than the Russians. "
BWAHAHAHAHA - Thats why ALL OF RUSSIA joined with their buddy Hitler to invade Poland and start WWII.
Romanov, we know what you are.
"2.) More Ukrainians served as Nazi Concentration Camp guards than any Russians. "
Yes , if you go by forged KGB documents.
http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/WhitePulp/isbn0895264587
"3.) Ukrainians belonging to Ukrainian nationalist groups in Western Ukraine enacted pogroms on Jews and Poles - killing thousands - FOR THE NAZIS"
Its a known fact that Russia has killed more jews than Hitler.
4.) Ukrainians in the UNA/UNSO enaged in sabotage on US territory during WWII killing Americans.
Romanov, What can I ever do to repay you? You have given me such an opportunity to harpoon the sacred cows of communism.
"In another brush with destiny, Mr. Skubik was informed by the Ukrainian underground of a Soviet assassination plot against Gen. George Patton. After his reports on the plot were dismissed, Gen. Patton was killed in an accident involving his staff car and a military truck. Although part of Gen. Patton's security detail, Mr. Skubik was refused permission to investigate the crash. Mr. Skubik's Ukrainian underground contact, Stepan Bandera, was himself assassinated by the KGB in 1959."
"5.) BELARUS per capita lost more than Ukraine and Russia during WWII. "
Perhaps true but I doubt it. Ukraine is in between Berlin and Stalingrad - not Belorus.
But I would not be surprised - the Kremlin is still trying to crush them.
Yes, Belarus per capita was the worst hit in the SU. As I recall, the Red Partisans were the most active there, and Germans held reprisals against the population. Like in Ukraine, the front moved through Belarus twice.
I trust you do know that Stalin built Stalingrad on the fatr side of Ukraine and AWAY from Moscow so that his dacha would not suffer.
Didn't some University in Ukraine invite David Duke to speak?
Funny you should say that (Hey Spannie, Ukrainian Neo-Nazi UNA/UNSO PING) The following is not suprising since UNA/UNSO has called on Ukrainians to kill American troops. "Noted" (/sarcasm) freepr, Spanalot, refuses to condemn the statments of this organization:
"Anti-Semites in the Ukraine appear to have learnt from their co-ideologists in Russia. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports:
Leading Ukrainian intellectuals condemned a recent surge of anti-Semitism in the media and criticized authorities for not doing enough to stop such ideas.
A group that included leading journalists, authors and philosophers made its position public at a news conference Tuesday in Kiev. The statement “Against Xenophobia, For a European Ukraine” condemned the activities of MAUP, a private university whose leaders are considered responsible for a recent rise in anti-Semitism in the media and who earlier this summer endorsed calls to deport Ukrainian Jews.
The authors of the statement also condemned an anti-Semitic letter, signed by some 100 public figures, including two legislators, calling on authorities and the Supreme Court to investigate the activities of local Jewish organizations. The statement was signed by philosophers Miroslav Popovich and Yevgeniy Sverstyuk, journalists Vachtang Kipiani, Yuri Makarov and Natalia Ligachyova, writer Yuriy Andruchovich and others.
This anti-Semitic letter is directly parallel with what happened in Russia back in January, when anti-Semites produced a letter calling for Russian Jewish groups to be banned. The letter appeared in April; journalist and blogger Veronica Khokhlova noted at the time:
Andriy Shkil, leader of the UNA-UNSO and one of the tackiest Ukrainian politicians, and Stepan Khmara, a former dissident, were among those who signed a letter to Yushchenko (in Ukrainian), asking him to quickly do something about "organized Jewry" in Ukraine. Both Shkil and Khmara are members of Yulia Tymoshenko's Batkivshchyna Party. The letter is remindful of the one written in Russia earlier this year - only the Ukrainian copy has gotten a lot more signees and a lot less publicity.
Yulia Tymoshenko (or “Yulia Timoshenko“) is the current Prime Minister of Ukraine, and Shkil and Khmara are not the only legislators to have embarrassed her. Back in June the JTA noted an alarming conference that was held at MAUP ("The Interregional Academy of Personnel Management"):
Participants at an anti-Zionist conference in Kiev called for the deportation of Jews from Ukraine.
The call came from one of the participants in the June 3 meeting in the Ukrainian capital. David Duke, a U.S. white supremacist, presided over the one-day conference, titled “Zionism as the Biggest Threat to Modern Civilization.” A number of Ukrainian politicians and public figures took part in the conference, including Levko Lukyanenko, a member of Parliament from the bloc headed by Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko." (http://blogs.salon.com/0003494/2005/07/24.htm)
"On June 3, 2005, Duke co-chaired a conference "Zionism As the Biggest Threat to Modern Civilization" in Ukraine, sponsored by the Interregional Academy of Personnel Management (MAUP), reportedly the largest non-state university in Ukraine. The conference was attended by several notable Ukrainian public figures and politicians, and writer Israel Shamir (accused of anti-Semitism by critics).[3]" (wikipedia)
And from the ADL:
"David Duke participates in anti-Semitic conference in the Ukraine
Posted: 6/30/2005
David Duke attended a one-day conference on June 3 titled “Zionism As the Biggest Threat to Modern Civilization,” sponsored by the Interregional Academy of Personnel Management (MAUP), a major private university in the Ukraine, known for its support of anti-Semitism and extremist views. Duke has been a lecturer at MAUP, which has also published some of his writings in their publication, “Personnel.” Several Ukrainian public figures and politicians participated in the conference, including Levko Lukyanenko, a member of parliament, former ambassador to Canada, and a leading political figure in the present regime. The conference was also attended by Israel Shamir, an anti-Semitic writer. Duke is quoted as saying: “We will hope that people wake up before everything is lost… We as nationalities that make up the majority in our countries are very soft on minorities—sympathy towards them has long past the point of insanity.” Another speaker allegedly called for the deportation of Ukrainian Jews."
( http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/B74CD7C8-4878-4EF8-A8BA-AFA79C54AE9D,18AA02A5-13A1-44F3-B4D4-6176E1ECC36C,frameless.htm)
And here are the racists from "National Vanguard" lauding the Ukrainians for bestowing an honorary Doctorate in History degree on Duke (note the claim about Ukrainian government officials and their subbordination to this "movement"):
""MAUP is one of the leading universities in Ukraine as well as all eastern Europe. Formerly a national university system run by the Ukrainian government, it was privatized after the fall of Communism. It has grown to over 51,000 students with branches throughout Ukraine. Cooperative arrangements exist with other universities in a number of other nations and it has the highest academic accreditation possible both in Ukraine and on the international level. UNESCO recognizes the MAUP university system as one the world's high-level educational institutions. MAUP is the source of most of the bachelor and post-graduate degrees of Ukrainian government officials and administrators. Such influence over governmental employees disturbs many Jews in the Ukraine who are concerned about 'lingering anti-Semitism.'"
"The official report on the ceremony states: "Today, September 9, a senior academic council of twelve MAUP professors sat in judgment of Mr. Duke's doctoral dissertation and defense. The academics included some former high officials of the Ukrainian government. The council was headed by University Rector, Prof. Mykola Golavatiy, the former Minister for Ukrainian Youth Affairs. He is the MAUP First Vice-President of socio-scientific work. The rest of the academic council included the following members:
* Prof. Olga Babkina, head of MAUP's Presidential University. She is famous as the first Doctor of Political Sciences awarded in Ukraine (from the State University). (The discipline came into existence only after the fall of Soviet Communism).
* Prof. Oksana Rubliuk, PhD, Secretary of the council of Social Work and Political Science.
* Prof. Uriy Surmin, Deputy Director of the Institute of State Management under the President of Ukraine; a Professor in Social Sciences.
* Prof. Olexandr Antoniuk, Chief of MAUP's Ukrainian-Russian Management and Business Institute; a Doctor of Political Science.
* Prof. Volodymyr Sudakov, Director of Sociological Sciences; Doctor from Moscow State University and author of a number of influential books and scientific papers in Ukraine and in other Eastern European nations.
* Prof. Mylola Tulenkov, Vice-President of the Personnel Training Institute of the State Employment Service of the Work and Social Politics division of the Ministry of Ukraine.
* Prof. Igor Hzhniak, former government administrator, Doctor of Historical Sciences.
* Prof. Svetlana Kayanova, Chief of the Ukrainian-South African Institute of Political Leadership and Linguistics; philologist.
* Prof. Alla Padun, General Director and Executive Secretary of the Scientific Institute of International Education; PhD in biology.
* Prof. Alla Bilous, Chief of Scientific Personnel Department; head of MAUP Doctoral Program; PhD in History.
"During his doctoral defense Duke alleged that Jewish supremacism and extremism were becoming even more radical. He said that the extremists have taken over Israel to such a degree that 'Soon their only choices for a leader will be a mass murderer such as Ariel Sharon, of Sabra and Shatila -- or a maniac who wants to ethnically cleanse all of Palestine, Benjamin Netanyahu.'"
More on Duke from ADL:
"Currently based in the Ukraine, where he is sponsored by a local far rightist, Duke has taken his anti-Jewish propaganda campaign to Russia, Europe and the Middle East during the past two years (he has also lived in Russia during this time). He has spoken at Holocaust denial conferences and other far-right events that attracted large neo-Nazi audiences." (http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_america_updates/individuals/david_duke/duke_update_021122.htm)
One trick pony, eh? I think this myth has been debunked ad infinitum, ad naseum.
"Its a known fact that Russia has killed more jews than Hitler."
I'll give you some help with your "Research" project:
1.) Please show historical/archival reference to these claims. Make sure you forget "Russia" and replace it with "Soviet Union."
2.) Ensure you research the Ukrainians working as Commandants and camp guards at a.) the Soviet Gulags, and b.) the NAZI concentration camps. You call it a "myth," Simon Wisenthal says it's not. Lemme see, whom shall I believe, Spanalot - a "so-called" American who claims UNA/UNSO guys are heros (the same guys who want American soldiers in Iraq dead) or a guy who survived the Holocaust and spent his life tracking down Nazi scum?
3.) Be sure to include a section that discusses Soviet ideological based crimes (GULag, Purges, etc) versus an attempted anti-Semitic pogrom in 1953 (Stalin's timely death ended the attempts). Make sure you discuss Ukrainian complicity in Soviet crimes.
This is just to help you gain a bit more integrity, learn about academic honesty, and perhaps lead you from the path of Holocaust denial that you and your brothers in UNA/UNSO engage in.
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