1,600 working on Boeing jet to hunt and sink submarines

MSNBC ^ | July 16, 2006 | By Steve Wilhelm

[sukhoi-30mki]

1,600 working on Boeing jet to hunt and sink submarines

By Steve Wilhelm

Updated: 8:00 p.m. ET July 16, 2006

Boeing's bid to replace the Navy's submarine-killing aircraft with one based on Boeing's smallest jet has grown into Western Washington's largest Defense Department project.

About 1,600 people in Renton and Kent are working to design the P-8A, which is essentially a Boeing 737-800 outfitted with an advanced array of submarine-detecting equipment and manned by a crew of nine.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Washington state's "biggest" maybe ... But I doubt even that. (The Trident base employs how many? Puget Sound has how many?)

But I can think of any of several thousand other projects nationally employing more than 1600 people that are single-purpose defense projects....

Oh well. This was MSNBC.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Ping!!

[CharlesWayneCT]

THis is typical -- the Navy gets in their mind that the existing contracter, while doing a fine job, may be getting lax. They get a better bid from a competitor, and off they go.

Later, the contract doubles in size because the new contractor can't actually do the job cheaper than the old contractor.

[Doohickey]

I'm not sold on a jet MPA. I realize that the P-3's Lockheed Electra platform is getting long in the tooth, but I think we need a replacement that go low and slow like the Orion does. The 737 is a fine platform, but it's made to go slow only during takeoffs and landings.

[Oztrich Boy]

Later, the contract doubles in size because the new contractor can't actually do the job cheaper than the old contractor.

OTOH after 60 years the old contracter may have been getting a bit complacent

The Gripping Hand is if you want faster transit time to the patrol area the only choice is the 737 (unless you want to buy Albatros A-40s from the Ruskis)

[lowbuck]

To be more precise, the P-3 goes high and slow! When your down low your fuel burn goes way up and on station time is reduced!

[Robert A Cook PE]

mixed feelings.

IF the Boeing guys can put a bomb bay in place in a 737 airframe, and IF they can get a the same time and range and (as you point out) low, low speed performance, then go for it!

After all, is a 50's era prop plane "better" - if the prop vibration and noise kill attention span and beat the operators to death after 4-10 hours in the air?

If the 737 has better top speed and range, can it get to more area to begin searching a hot datum faster and further out?

Don't have performance answers to those.

[Species8472]

Technical Specs
Length: 126.5 feet
Height: 42.1 feet
Wing Span: 117.5 feet
Max Fuel Capacity: 75,169 pounds
Max Zero Fuel Weight: 138,300 pounds
Max Taxi Weight: 184,700 pounds
Max Cruise Altitude: 41,000 feet
Max Cruise Speed: 490 KTAS (True Air Speed)
Max Range Cruise Speed: 440 KTAS (True Air Speed)
Propulsion: Two CFM56-7B engines providing 27,000 pounds thrust each

[Redleg Duke]

Before this program was competed, Lockheed had a chance to upgrade the Orion without competition, and they blew it totally.

No pity for Lock-Mart. They got fat and complacent and got what was coming to them.

[SFC Chromey]

As a Boy Scout, I had a chance to go up in a P3C at Moffett Field. It was a blast!

I flew the P3C sim and crashed heavily. The scary part was the computer printout showing the costs of each major part of the plane that was damaged beyond repair.

The last line read: TOTAL LOSS (ouch)

[grobdriver]

True, but you shut down a couple of engines on station to counter.
Try THAT in a 737!

[jpsb]

Can't wait to see a 737 do a carrier takeoff and landing.

[lowbuck]

Punch out one down low and it costs you a lot more Jet A then doing the same up high. Plus, you have to increase your loiter speed to keep your sorry a*s out of the water if you lose another. Plus, you give the bubble head a better chance to counterdetect you. Plus, well you get the idea.

[COEXERJ145]

Boeing's bid to replace the Navy's submarine-killing aircraft with one based on Boeing's smallest jet...

Their smallest jet is the 737-600, not the -800 that is being used for the basis of the new ASW aircraft.

Of course I wouldn't expect 99.9% of the media to know this.

[Oztrich Boy]

Their smallest jet is the 737-600

Actually I think the F-18E/F is smaller

[Doohickey]

Why would they? P-3's don't.

[COEXERJ145]

I referring to passenger aircraft.

[Centurion2000]

Can't wait to see a 737 do a carrier takeoff and landing.

Can you imagine how that guy will perform his landings when he transitions into commercial aviation? He'd be perfect for Midway (Chicago) and Atlanta airport landings.

[Doohickey]

I've never heard a fish finder complain about the ride.

Anyway if the P-8, or whatever it's called, can operate safely at low enough altitude to use MAD, FLIR or the Mk-1 eyeball then go for it.

Plus, it would be cool to photoshop American Airlines livery on a 737 launching a Harpoon or dropping a Mk-46.