Posted on 07/16/2006 12:17:32 PM PDT by Stoat
"I am not familiar with the specifics of US lawmakers. Maybe Senators etc govern but MP's do not."
In even a Parliamentary system, the MPs would be considered "part of the government" in that they have a legislative function and create the "government" by appointing a PM from the majority party in the House of Commons - to be rubber-stamped by the Crown.
Your limiting of the word "government" to encompass only the chief executive is way too narrow.
Galloway is not a member of the government; he is a single MP representing the "Respect" party which is a single issue (anti Iraq war)party. The government presently in power is the Labour party. He doesn't have any powers as such but can vote on new laws as an MP - Member of Parliament. The two are not the same.
Not knowing his family lineage, I suppose I spoke too broadly. Perhaps calling him 'white' would have been more appropriate. At any rate, my point was that I have no doubt his constituency loves the fact that such a fervent defender of their cause is someone who doesn't outwardly appear to have traditional Middle Eastern features.
Continues to destroy my faith in democracy. People will elect whoever promises them freebies or act like clowns rather than those who could actually make intelligent decisions.
Your limiting of the word "government" to encompass only the chief executive is way too narrow.
You are looking at this through the eyes of an American system. They are completely different.
1. MP's are not considered part of any Government. Only those chosen by the PM to be ministers are the Government.
2.Most legislation is created by those ministers. The rest is created by the major party who have to have the support of the Government to pass it. Other MP's can propose legislation, but they cannot get it passed without the says so of said Government.
3. Galloway is not a member of the governing party.
What you are saying is that those who lost the General Election are in Government. This is obviously untrue.
Not unlike Jim McDermott here in Seattle. ....though "Baghdad" is a congresscritter, not a big city mayor.
Being a fellow Seattleite, I immediately understand the comparison you make.
BTW, I hope to attend the July 22 FREEP at exit 119 to support our troops.
"You are looking at this through the eyes of an American system. They are completely different."
A legislator's vote is part of a governing system.
"1. MP's are not considered part of any Government. Only those chosen by the PM to be ministers are the Government."
Again, a narrower definition of the word. The "government" encompasses more than the executive. The Government, may not. Here, it would be the Administration.
"What you are saying is that those who lost the General Election are in Government. This is obviously untrue."
No, they aren't in Government, but they are in government.
See the distinction? Does he hold public office? If so, he's in government.
"You're limiting this word to the peculiar definition used in British politics, not the real definition of the word, which is more broad."
Well considering we are talking about British politics you have to take it in that context or else this thread has no meaning.
That's like saying George W Bush is the Prime Minister because it's really the same thing. Well that would be silly.
"Well considering we are talking about British politics you have to take it in that context or else this thread has no meaning. "
So, are local councils not "government"? Are the police not a part of the "government"? The court system?
"You're limiting this word to the peculiar definition used in British politics, not the real definition of the word, which is more broad."
Seems reasonable considering that British politics was the subject of the discussion?!
"Seems reasonable considering that British politics was the subject of the discussion?!"
I find it decidedly odd that there is apparently no government in the UK beyond the PM and a few ministers. Just how do they find the time?
Galloway holds a public office. That makes him part of the government, if not part of Government (ie, the administration of the majority party).
"Well considering we are talking about British politics you have to take it in that context or else this thread has no meaning. "
So, are local councils not "government"? Are the police not a part of the "government"? The court system?"
Okay, so if the British people have a wacko called George Galloway "in government" then the Americans have a fair share of wacko left-wing judges "in government" so it seems it is not just the UK who have their problems.
"So, are local councils not "government"?"
Local government. Not 'the government'.
"Are the police not a part of the "government"? The court system?"
No :)
"Okay, so if the British people have a wacko called George Galloway "in government" then the Americans have a fair share of wacko left-wing judges "in government" so it seems it is not just the UK who have their problems."
I agree with you on that. You have Galloway, we have Pelosi and Hillary.
"No :)"
So, they're vigilantes? Private citizens? Interesting. By what authority do they operate, then?
"I agree with you on that. You have Galloway, we have Pelosi and Hillary."
Haha, believe me Galloway is far more left wing than Hillary Clinton could dream of! Clinton is probably broadly in line with Tony Blair, maybe to the right of him on some issues.
"Haha, believe me Galloway is far more left wing than Hillary Clinton could dream of! Clinton is probably broadly in line with Tony Blair, maybe to the right of him on some issues."
Now, now! Give Hillary a chance. If she thought it would give her power, she'd be far to the left of Galloway.
"So, they're vigilantes? Private citizens? Interesting. By what authority do they operate, then?"
Look, this is a pointless discussion. I know what you mean, you know what we mean. Galloway is not a member of 'government' in any sense in which that phrase is used in British politics, hence the initial confusion when you asserted that. However, he is a member of the UK legislature and holding a public office as an MP.
"Galloway is not a member of 'government' in any sense in which that phrase is used in British politics, hence the initial confusion when you asserted that."
Indeed. He's not in the "administration". He is, however, an elected official, so most would consider him in "government" small "g". "government" as in the entire apparatus of the state.
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