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To: Alberta's Child
Here's an FYI. During WWII, the Vatican knew of the atrocities being carried out by the Nazis and did nothing to stop it. Some clergy actually participated. The pope at the time (Pius the ???) was known as "Hitler's Pope".

Just recently, I believe the Vatican finally apologized for their actions (inactions) during the war.

They should keep their mouths shut on this one, even if they are a sovereign state.

211 posted on 07/14/2006 7:18:46 PM PDT by CarolAnn (If we aren't supposed to shoot animals, then why did God make them out of meat?)
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To: CarolAnn
Pope Pius XII (the fact that you didn't know the exact pope leads me to believe that your understanding of facts on this one is pretty slim) has been credited (by prominent Jews at the time) with saving the lives of something like 850,000 Jews.

How many Jews in Europe have ever been credited with saving the lives of 850,000 Jews in the 1930s and 1940s?

215 posted on 07/14/2006 7:25:53 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: CarolAnn

During WWII, the Vatican knew of the atrocities being carried out by the Nazis and did nothing to stop it. Some clergy actually participated. The pope at the time (Pius the ???) was known as "Hitler's Pope".

I see that you have had your share of kool-aid in reference to the outright lies and propaganda used against the Catholic Church.

Amid the flood of tributes to Pope Pius XII following his death on October 9, 1958, those of Jewish leaders were especially warm. "During the ten years of Nazi terror," said Golda Meir, then Israeli representative to the United Nations and later Prime Minister of Israel, "the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims." Elio Toaff, who as Rome’s Chief Rabbi would one day welcome another pope to his synagogue, said that Italian Jews "more than anyone else . . . had the opportunity to appreciate the great kindness, filled with compassion and magnanimity, that the Pope displayed during the terrible years of persecution and terror." The tributes of major rabbis in New York alone were so numerous that it took three issues of the New York Times to report them all. Praise came also from the Jewish press. "There was probably not a single ruler of our generation," wrote the Winnipeg Jewish Post, "who did more to help the Jews in their hour of greatest tragedy . . . than the late Pope."

http://firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0010/reviews/hughes.html

At least it looks like there are quite a few people, who surely know more about what happened than you do, who also see that what you say is pure garbage:

"I should like you to take this occasion to express to His Holiness my deeply-felt appreciation of the frequent action which the Holy See has taken on its own initiative in its generous and merciful efforts to render assistance to the victims of racial and religious persecutions." Franklin D. Roosevelt to Myron C. Taylor, August 3, 1944

". . . I told him [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him , and through him, the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public, for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews, to save children, and Jews in general." Moshe Sharett, Later First Israeli Foreign Minister (April 1945)

"When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the pope was raised for its victims." Golda Meir, Israeli Foreign (October 1958)

"He was a great and good man, and I loved him." Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery,London Sunday Times (October 12, 1958)

"Pope Pius XII did not remain silent." Jeno Levai (1966)

". . . the Catholic Church, under the pontificate of Pope Pius XII was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000, Jews from certain death at Nazi hands." Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews (1967)

"What we can say already, in light of what we have learned, is that the Nazis considered Pius XII and his collaborators as their greatest enemies, and that, reciprocally, the Pope and his entourage saw the Nazis as criminals working for the destruction of the Church and civilization." Jean Chelini, Le Figaro (October 8, 1983)

http://www.holycross.edu/departments/history/vlapomar/hiatt/piusXII.htm

But go right ahead and believe the lies and propaganda against the Catholic Church and "Hitler's Pope". What a crock.

225 posted on 07/14/2006 7:50:55 PM PDT by frankiep (I respect Islamofacists more than the American left - at least they ADMIT that they hate the US.)
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To: CarolAnn
FYI, the Catholics were also victims of the Holocaust, which was noted during the Nuremberg Trials:

Justice Jackson's Opening Statement for the Prosecution

Against their opponents, including Jews, Catholics, and free labor, the Nazis directed such a campaign of arrogance, brutality, and annihilation as the world has not witnessed since the pre-Christian ages.

Nuremberg Trials

Catholic Heroes of the Holocaust:

Coumbia Education

From THE BUTTON PROJECT JEWISH FEDERATION OF PEORIA:

"Over 5 million Non-Jewish Victims were exterminated by the Nazis during the Holocaust. 3 million of those victims were Poles and Catholics. To learn more about non-Jewish victims check out a web site of interest at www.holocaustforgotten.com.

Holocaust Facts

229 posted on 07/14/2006 8:02:36 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: CarolAnn

Although I disagree with the Vatican's stance on the war between Israel and Hezbollah (sp.?), the Vatican has the right to speak out. This business about the Holy See failing to speak out against the Holocaust during WWII is a canard. What was the pope supposed to do during WWII? Did he have an army that he could send against the Germans? Pius XII actually saved the lives of thousands of Jews in Italy and in Rome. (I wrote a paper on this, using primary sources, so please do not dispute this.) Remember, also, that Rome was not liberated from the Nazis until 1944 (it had, of course, been under Fascist control until 1943). Since the Vatican is inside Rome, it was literally in a very dangerous place during the war. Finally, there was no freedom of speech in Germany, Italy, Austria, etc. during the war. Priests and bishops who spoke out publicly against the Nazis were sent to concentration camps or killed. There is only so much people can do or say in that situation.

I find it ironic that the same people who blast the Church for supposedly remaining silent during the Holocaust, don't criticize the silent majority of moderate Muslims for not condemning the terrorist acts of their radical co-religionists. They don't even condemn Muslims for denying the reality of the Holocaust.


255 posted on 07/15/2006 5:34:47 AM PDT by steadfastconservative
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To: CarolAnn

"Here's an FYI. During WWII, the Vatican knew of the atrocities being carried out by the Nazis and did nothing to stop it. Some clergy actually participated. The pope at the time (Pius the ???) was known as "Hitler's Pope"."

Parroting anti-Catholic falsehoods, I see. Actually, no other organization probably did more to save Jews in Europe than the Catholic Church. Pope Piux XII (that would be the "Pius the ???" that you think you know oh so much about, is credited with saving around 860,000 Jews during WWII. The Chief Rabbi of Rome during WWII, Israel Zolli, converted to Catholicism after the war and took the name Eugenio, which was Pope Pius XII's given name, to honor the Pope for his efforts on behalf of the Jews.

Upon Pius XII's death, Golda Meir, future Prime Minister of Israel said, "We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. . . . During the ten years of Nazi terror, when our people passed through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims"

Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, said, "With special gratitude we remember all he has done for the persecuted Jews during one of the darkest periods in their entire history."

Finally, Albert Einstein said after the war, "Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty."

So, instead of eagerly lapping up the lies told by today's MSM about Pope Pius XII, find out what his contemporaries had to say about him. You will find a much different picture from the sensationalist writings about him in our times.


300 posted on 07/18/2006 6:20:14 PM PDT by Catholic Iowan
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