Some Leeway for the Small Shoplifter

The New York Times ^ | 7/13/2006 | Michael Barbaro

[Ptaz]

Wal-Mart refuses to carry smutty magazines. It will not sell compact discs with obscene lyrics. And when it catches customers shoplifting — even a pair of socks or a pack of cigarettes — it prosecutes them.

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Paul Sakuma/Associated Press Customers outside a Wal-Mart store in Mountain View, Calif. But now, in a rare display of limited permissiveness, Wal-Mart is letting thieves off the hook — at least in cases involving $25 or less.

[steveo]

theft by professional shoplifters and its own employees,

I worked retail management for about 20 years. Your number one source of shrinkage is from your own employees. Also of all of the people I busted shoplifting, I never had to go to court. They either took a plea offer or the charges were dropped.

[Gabz]

what you are failing to take into account here is that WalMart may very well be the biggest taxpayer to the county........

You only talk about the cost to the county that WalMart calling the sheriff, not the financial gain the county receives from WalMart being there, not only as a taxpaying landowner, but as an employer and tax generator.........

[Mark was here]

However, the open-shelf system carries with it much more risk than the closed-counter system, and it's Wal-Mart that should bear that risk, not you and I through the misuse of the sheriff.

Misuse of the sheriff booking thieves? Maybe we should just change the laws and make it legal to steal stuff worth less than $25.00?

The store is only using laws that are on the books. If it not a basic function of the government to protect property rights, then I have no clue as to what is. The store is using prudence in protecting their property by being vigilant in catching those who would violate their property rights.

I fell no pity for the thieves and it is just nutty for cops to complain about doing their job.

I understand what you are saying about having Soviet Era merchandising. I like the system where people respect the property rights of others, and have a chance to examine what property is offered for sale.

Is protecting property rights, mainly by prosecuting those who violate the property rights of others, a basic function of government, or is it not?

[discostu]

That's a legitimate cost. But your lawyer doesn't charge you for the guy that covers him on vacation in his hours spent not on vacation.

But the county attorney spends almost no time on these cases, one is in the room during bulk court to be "consulted" (usually his consultation is "plead no contest to the lesser crime offered and pay the fine"). Bulk court has a couple of bailiffs, one judge, one defense attorney and one prosecuting attorney, probably less than $200 an hour in man power cost and the can process over 60 cases in that hour.

You're trying to bill the entire salary of the warden against one sheriff. Doesn't work like that, his salary would have to be billed against ALL the hours of ALL the sheriffs of ALL the jurisdiction that have put people in that jail. Pennies to the hour.

[muawiyah]

Since we were discussing a sheriff and not a "cop on the beat" I think your comments are irrelevant to this situation.

[muawiyah]

Retail business don't add value ~ they simply pass through their costs.

In some situations they may operate in a small jurisdiction and increase the local tax base substantially, but the customers can come from a wider area bringing their taxes with them.

[muawiyah]

Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone who is frequently robbed is advise them to put locks on their doors and latches on their windows. The people with stuff worth stealing do owe it to themselves, if not their stockholders, to exercise due diligence in protecting their stock.

It's not the sheriff's primary job to protect a store.

[discostu]

We were discussing the kind of guy that responds to calls from WalMart and goes and writes up the "arrest" report on the shoplifter (often there's no true arrest made, just give the guy a ticket with the court date and location for his bulk appointment). Depending on where the incident took place the person in question could have the title "sheriff" or "deputy" or even "ranger", but in the end it's always going to be a cop on the beat. "Sheriffs" (by title) aren't always the top dog in charge, frequently county jurisdiction police forces refer to their officer as "sheriff" (like right here with the Pima County Sheriff's Office, all of whose cruisers bear the word "Sheriff" in big letters on the side). Trying to suddenly say you were talking about the top dogs only when the discussion was about responding officers to a WalMart shoplifting case is completely disingenuous.

[bobdsmith]

If I steal something worth $25.50, will they still drop the charges? It's only .50 more...? How about $26? That's only a buck more... If $26 is acceptable, how about $30?

When you steal $26 you have to leave $1 in change obviously

[muawiyah]

A typical county has one sheriff and one jail. Since there are always more criminals than capacity in the county jail, many of them get shipped to special state prisons.

It's a trivial matter to add up all the costs for responsibilities assigned the sheriff, divide them by 2020 and figure out the annual billable hourly cost for a sheriff (should that be needed).

In situations where two counties share a jail, or even a courthouse (with judges, lawyers, etc.) it should not be difficult to divide the cases according to hours used for circumstances arising in one county or the other.

I don't know of any counties that have more than one sheriff.

[muawiyah]

I never changed my position in any post. In fact, I had the traditional sheriff in mind all the way through. You are the one who kept trying to shift away from the sheriff to a subordinate officer, or the member of a city or town police force.

In Fairfax County, VA, since we have an urban county, all the sheriff does is run the jail ~ and it's a big jail ~ don't forget that if you come around here trying to commit crimes ~ lots of room in there.

Anyway, there's only one sheriff here. His activities result in work being performed by the county attornies and by county judges. If he doesn't bring the prisoners to the court, nothing happens.

As a practical matter, though, in this county the Fairfax Police have more of the catch and keep action.

[discostu]

No. A typical county that has police at all has an actual police force, multiple people, probably hundreds of officers. as for the jail since it's usually the state that runs the correctional facilities a particular county might not have any jails at all, or it could have multiple jails.

Why are you dividing by 2020? Just another number you felt like making up off the top of your head?

I know of many counties that have multiple sheriffs, every single one in Arizona and California among others. Now each police force which gives it's officers the title of "sheriff" has one sheriff who is in charge, but all of the officers are "sheriffs".

[discostu]

That's got to be a lie. The discussion was about responding officers to shoplifting cases, no where bigger than Mayberry would that be the top dog sheriff. I wasn't shifting anything, the discussion was on responding officers and how much it costs to have an officer respond compared to the revenue of the ensuing fine.

Maybe in Fairfax only the top guy gets to be sheriff. Out west usually all uniformed representatives of the Sheriffs office are sheriffs.

I'm sure other officers also perform arrests that create work for the court system.

[Mannaggia l'America]

If I steal something worth $25.50, will they still drop the charges?

If it's Walmart, that would have to be something like $25.66 or $25.82.... :-)

[muawiyah]

2020 is for standard workhours per year. There are other numbers that circle around 2000 (40 hour week you know).

My use of that number was pretty obvious to folks who have ever worked at the task of computing "normal hourly rate".

[discostu]

But of course you're still commiting the fraudulent math of dividing all the cost by one guy, what about all the rest of the officers? Billable hour would have to be by EVERYBODY that arrests somebody that's in the jail, not just the top dog who almost never actually arrests anybody himself unless he's running for re-election. You're basically trying to put all of the costs of the entire police force and the entire court system and the entire correctional system under billable hours for the guy in charge of the police force, completely bogus math.

[Mark was here]

It's not the sheriff's primary job to protect a store.

No one is saying it is. It is their job to arrest thieves caught in the act of being thieves. If they dont want to arrest theives caught in the act of being thieves, they are in the wrong line of work. No one forces the thief to steal, lots of folks shop with out stealing.

Look, the cops can stay in the donut shop, or in their revenue producing speed traps, until the victim of a crime needs the help of the government in prosecuting a criminal.

If the government is not interested in prosecuting criminals, the government should refund tax money collected for that purpose.

I cant believe you think otherwise. Are people supposed to prosecute criminals outside of the criminal justice system because it is a pain in the ass for cops to book criminals? I just don't get it.

[muawiyah]

The chief law enforcement officer for the courts in a U.S. county is called the SHERIFF, that is "shire reeve".

It's a thousand year old tradition. In fact, many state constitutions provide for the office ~ one sheriff, one county.

A "deputy" you see riding around in a car marked "Sheriff" isn't a "sheriff" ~ he is a "deputy sheriff", but we know who "owns" the car eh?!

[theFIRMbss]

>They've lost their minds. I realize it costs resources to prosecute the small shoplifter, but if you let people get away with stealing the small stuff, what do they go after next?

Don't worry. After
the Muslims win, we will all
be living under

Sharia. And then
the scummy thieves will get theirs . . .
(After a few years

we can all revolt,
restore our freedoms, after
clearing out the scum.)

[discostu]

A repsonding officer is a responding officer is a responding officer, the title is immaterial. And the discussion is on the total cost of the responding officer writing up an arrest of a shoplifter. Stop the red herring bullshit and deal with the fact that you're wrong. You tried to say the responding officer had a total cost of $500 an hour and that's laughable in it's stupidity, now you're trying to say you were only talking about the guy in charge who wasn't the responding officer and who's costs don't figure into the discussion.