[Paloma_55]

The difference between a conservative and a libertarian often comes on the social issues.

Conservatives recognize that there is a need for government in the social space. Libertarians are anti-government period.

I have heard libertarians say that if a guy falls off his motorcyle and is lying without a helmet, people should just walk/drive by..that they have no obligation to help him. Sorry, I am anti-government, but not to the point that I think we should leave each other to die.

Marriage is an institution that SUPPORTS society and this is why it receives government sanction. There are plenty of things that support society, but marriage is fundamental.

Conservatives are not asking for government to get MORE involved with marriage, but rather, to stay away from it and leave it as it... between a man and woman as has been demonstrated to be SUPPORTIVE of society.

Denmark and other countries have gone with homosexual marriage and what they find is that marriage and the family breaks down. When marriage is opened up to include anything that someone might imagine, it loses its value. This is why people in Denmark are going away from marriage, shacking up, and having illegitimate children. Just watch as the Danish society continues to spiral into the depths.

[newzjunkey]

This is why people in Denmark are going away from marriage, shacking up, and having illegitimate children.

And the reason the very same is happening in the USA is also gay marriage? Oh wait...

How do you see "no fault" divorce as contributing?

[BobL]

Good point on Denmark.

In fact Europe is so libertarian on social issues that they will soon finish off their 1500 years of history. In roughly 30 years, there will be enough young Muslims to start civil wars and hold territory. In 50 years, the remaining (and old) white Europeans will either be defeated or have fled (or have fought back earlier in a way that makes World War 2 look like a kindergarten fight - but that's unlikely).

The reason for all of this is that European society has jettisoned its need to perpetuate itself, and now has virtually no kids being born to whites, and huge numbers being born to Muslims (not to mention immigration).

Their are many reasons. Guilt (over their glorious past) is a big one and may drive other things, such as: Legal gay marriage (which cannot produce children); huge incentives for women to work, rather than have kids, and probably lots of other reasons.

The reason that treason is specifically called out as a crime in our constitution is that it is a threat to the continuation of this country. One could arguably make the case that gay marriage is also threat, and the courts could outlaw it on that premise - but all we ask for is to let the elected representatives decide the issue. This is not hard to understand and anyone who thinks courts should be imposing new forms of marriage without specific legislation being written should be jailed (in my opinion).

[backtothestreets]

Libertarian ... ???

I worked long and hard starting in the 1970's to undo the "marriage tax". Tell me sincerely such a tax will not again be possible under the proposed marriage amendment. Also tell me how my position against the "marriage tax" fits you libertarian label.

The same-sex proponents repeatedly cite "same benefits" when hashing over the issue, and they specifically mean government benefits more than any other.