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To: ancient_geezer
Why would I do that?

Most doom and gloomers think buying gold will save their soul.

Gold doesn't pay interest or dividend, nor can it be said to be worth anything as an appreciable asset.

Excellent. Glad to hear you understand basic economics and are therefore not a goldbug.

Unfortunately, people are using less and less of their income dollars to do the latter for the strong disincentives of high marginal tax rates on savings and investing

I think you meant former? Tax rates on investing have been reduced. Or hadn't you heard?

as well as inflationary expectations.

Inflationary expectations make people less likely to invest? How do you figure?

As the savings rate with respect to discretionary income more than apply demonstrates. In fact they have begun to actually head into negative territory as a savings rate. The are becoming net debtors instead of net investor/savers of income.

How much of the negative savings rate is capital gains taxes paid? How much capital gains do Americans earn which are not included in the savings rate?

212 posted on 07/12/2006 3:04:37 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
The best tax rate on investment would be zero ... and that's what it is under the FairTax.

That would also help encourage more to save than at present - when the savings rate is, basically, zero. It also will help most taxpayers by boosting their purchasing power.

It's time for the FairTax!!!

213 posted on 07/12/2006 3:17:01 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Most doom and gloomers think buying gold will save their soul.

Sorry to disappoint. I just figure that we will find it necessary to cause government to change its ways to solve the fiscal crisis that our kids and grand kids are headed for with no change from the status quo.

Only G'd can save man's soul, so even their you are far off the mark.

Excellent. Glad to hear you understand basic economics and are therefore not a goldbug.

I never said I was, in fact if you had been aware of my posting history as regards the lack of solution in gold standards and such you would have known better.

I think you meant former? Tax rates on investing have been reduced. Or hadn't you heard?

Why are we taxing investing at all? That which you tax you get less of, not more. Just reducing such is a temporary bandaid at best.

In fact the marginal rate on a dollar earned, regardless of how it may be aquired, effectively raises the value of doing anything other than earning that next one.

Production suffers both from loss of capital input, as well as incentive to work. That is especially true where there are a gazillion government subsidies and incentives providing reasons to avoid that that next dollar because the change in the tax bite is more than the perceived value of consuming and taking the day off, or life off in some all to plentiful cases.

Inflationary expectations make people less likely to invest? How do you figure?

Makes it more desirable to spend for consumption today rather than invest and grow for tomorrow's security and less than better deal.

Given that true gains can be obtained without inflation, inflation merely assures that those on the margin making a choice of spend more now rather than save/invest to do so later, choose to consume rather than build wealth for future consumption.

The proof lay in the what is happening to the utilization of income that lay in the personal income data.

 

How much of the negative savings rate is capital gains taxes paid?

None, as the savings rate is calculated from after tax income, (i.e. discretionary income).

Realized capital gains are a component of income, just as wages, dividends and interest are. The sum less taxes paid is the basis of discretionary income.

How much capital gains do Americans earn which are not included in the savings rate?

The savings rate is that faction of income left after taxes and spending for consumption. If it's negative, one is consuming in excess of their realized income and gains.

216 posted on 07/12/2006 3:43:39 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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