Posted on 07/07/2006 12:59:52 PM PDT by The Lumster
While North Korea was gearing up to launch a long range missile and five rockets into the Sea of Japan this week, sending a grim message to the entire world, out at Saddleback Church Rick Warren was announcing that he will soon be bringing his message of purpose to North Korea where he reportedly will be addressing an audience of 15,000.
“God is using Rick Warren to be a messenger of peace!” gushed one Saddleback member. There is great hope in Lake Forest that Rick Warren's message in that stadium will cause Kim Jong II to drop his nuclear purposes and embrace some kinder, gentler ones.
But who exactly will be sitting in that stadium when Mr. Warren steps up to the podium? Given the level of government induced starvation in that country, the average North Korean would be lucky to have the strength to walk to the stadium to hear him in the first place.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldviewweekend.com ...
Nope. Just the one who doesn't want to listen.
Interesting point and you may well be right.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful of Rick Warren. In today's world, anyone working to bring people closer to God and further from selfishness, greed, worldliness and carnality is doing God's work.
The difference in terms of the Billy Graham example you cited when he went to the USSR is that there was already a Christian tradition insider of Russia, including a fairly sizeable Protestant presence outside of the official Orthodox faith. There is nothing like that in North Korea which never had a Christian presence and all ideas of there being a higher power beyond the state have long since been eliminated. Russia only half-heartedly tried that, and mostly under Stalin. But NK has thoroughly brainwashed their people with a cult of personality around the Kim family. I'm just not sure there's any penetrating that, nor any willingness to allow it to so be by the government. Anyway, I wish him luck. I'm just not holding my breath.
You might be right; I don't know. But are you sure? I knew some Koreans some years ago. The family had been in the US embassy of South Korean and decided to stay in the states and become citizens. The father was from North Korea and his family came south before the war. He told me how Presbyterian missionaries had spent a number of years in Korea during the latter half of the 19th century evangelizing there--it's the reason why so many Koreans are Presbyterians today. I wouldn't think that only occurred in the south.
I remember Corrie Ten Boom writing in one of her books how surprised she was to find believers wherever she went. She specifically mentioned a horrible prison in Africa and Cuba. I just don't assume that there are no Christians in a country where God's people have spent time. Not only that, I remember a Korean coming to my church when I was a child. He remembered looking into the sky and somehow knowing there was a Creator. So he went in search of someone who could tell him about that Creator. I just don't believe God's word returns void. I can't. But that doesn't mean that we necessarily see how He works.
I love the Message too. I gave a copy in English to my Chinese friend when she was looking for English reading material. If she decides to read the Bible, I wanted her to find one easy to understand. I prefer the NASB myself, but I really love The Message.
There may be some Protestant tradition in both halves of Korea, but overwhelming Buddhism and Shintosim was the religion on both Koreas prior to WW2, though of course Christianity has taken off throughout South Korea now. But since the Kims enslaved NK in 1949, they have all but wiped out whatever vestiges of Christianity were left. I suppose some among the very aged will have some long ago tie to Christianity, but they would be a distinct minority and certainly wouldn't dare practice it or even mention there past history. They'd be put into Gulags if they did.
Check out the book "The Aquariums of Pyonyang." It's a stunning insider account of NK's political prison system. Many who professed faith were tossed into it and murdered.
I'm not throwing rocks at anybody. I'm just saying I know how this regime operates. I'm sure God will end the regime there one day, but I'm not really under any illusions that this is how it will come about. Sorry.
PTL.
I use the NIV and AMPLIFIED for more serious comparative study.
But THE MESSAGE is my evening prayer time version now. I tend to read through each new translation I get by circling the chapter numbers when I've read all of a chapter etc.
The MESSAGE just brings so many familiar Scriptures more vividly to life in a way that leaves me feeling closer to God's heart; God's mind; God's purposes for me.
BTW, I suspect you know that loving the authentic Word of God in THE MESSAGE version is enough to get one excommunicated and placed on an virtual Inquisitional rack hereon by a whole host of naysayers. God will, no doubt, show them the error of their construction on such realities--in His time.
God's best to you and yours.
I have no delusions about Rick ending the regime. It's marvelous enough for me that he gets to speak out of his values AT ALL to any degree, in any way.
I also would suggest that the prayers of YONGI CHO'S largest Evangelical church in the world--will have some impact. Those folks fast and pray in prayer mountain retreats like few churches I know.
And earnest, sacrificial, servant-hearted prayer has an impact few other things do.
God still holds the heart of every king in His powerful hands.
Thannks for your kind reply.
I Corithians 14 tells it like it is.
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Yes, it does. Evidently more than you are willing to follow-up about.
It's more than a bit sad that you seem resistent to dealing with it about those issues in this thread.
It might be the wrong thing for YOU to do - but maybe it's not the wrong thing for Rick.
More power to him. I will be praying for his safety.
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AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Very wise and Biblical words.
Warren should have been more circumspect, and he still should be careful.
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What specific reliable information (i.e. NOT PERSONAL ASSUMPTION) do you have that Rick Warren has not been
MAXIMALLY CIRCUMSPECT AND THOROUGHLY LED OF HOLY SPIRIT in all of this whole thing?
He doesn't happen to be an idiot. He DOES happen to be led of God in great detail.
The evidence is abundant for those with ears to hear and eyes to see.
I find Jesus throughout PDL.
Odd that you don't.
Must be that eye of the beholder thing again.
And I don't remember 'go forth and nitpick' being anywhere in it :~) But then, I'm not the scholar some of the itchiest nitpickers are...
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Your Biblical wisdom is awesome. PTL.
With propaganda, only time will tell. Get back with me in a few years. We'll know then who was the better user and who the more fleeced usee.
Amen! My question to all of them is this: When was the last time you put on a pair of Levis and took to the streets to preach the Gospel to the lost and hurting street people? Or when was the last time that you went to another country, or even another city/state, to organize and speak at a large crusade? I've done it all, and I know how hard it is. I would be willing to bet that not ONE of the ones who are the most critical of Warren have EVER done it. We are commanded to do just that, but even if they don't want to do that, they should pray for those who are out there because the attacks that they come under is tremendous! I know this because I've been on the Board of Directors for an Evangelist for 12 years and I've seen Christians; at their very worst. I've heard things said and I've seen things done by Christians that would shock everyone.
When I first started traveling with the Crusades, I've stood there with my mouth wide open, at a loss for words, more than once. I'm not very often short of words either. LOL I've been attacked verbally on more than one occasion because they have controlling spirits and they don't want to support anything they can't control. The biggest problem that we deal with all the time is the spirit of jealousy, and I've seen terrible things happen to those who tried to stop the Word of God from going forth. I can tell you that it's NOT for the weak, because you really get beat up when you are actively serving the Lord. I could tell you things that happened to us that would shock everyone. Satan uses Christians to come against us, and they don't even realize that he's using them. We've done what we are commanded to do, and all that's left is to pray for them. The 'Good News' is that at the end of the day, God has, and will continue to use the willing to go forth and take the Gospel to the lost. :o)
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VERY WELL PUT.
Can you give more particulars?
I'm so frustrated with God's seeming delays in cleaning up the modern Christian prophetic that I haven't been keeping up with even the better prophetic sources these days.
I think you are quite right.
And some of those most shrill out of a bad faith; bad heart attitude may find the ground opening up for something besides sight seeing.
AMEN! God's best to you. More power to you.
Please keep up the good work. I know what it's like--thanks to God's grace and mercy the last decade +
An edifying 96 page booklet on the topic:
MESSIAH IN BOTH TESTAMENTS by Fred John Meldau is a very worthwhile read.
It even includes an interesting $1,000 offer. Not sure if it's still in print. Was published in 1967 by
THE CHRISTIAN VICTORY PUBLISHING COMPANY 2909 UMATILLA ST, DENVER CO 80211
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