Posted on 07/05/2006 3:33:11 PM PDT by pissant
First off, the information in the Affidavit and the MSM regarding this incident in Muhmudiyah does not look good for Steven Green or his alleged conspirators. If he or they are guilty of this crime, then I pray that the Military comes down on them like a ton bricks. The description of what happened is beyond disgusting and evil.
Having said that, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to Steven Green and the others, until they confess in a military court or are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So in the interim, I will try to do my best, like on the Haditha case, to poke holes in allegations, and to publicize the work of others doing the same thing.
In regards to the affidavit (AD) used to charge Steven Green, I have a couple of questions/observations. You can click on the URL above to see the affidavit.
Questions:
In Item #5 in the AD, the CID investigation states that 3 men approached checkpoint 1 (TCP#1) on 3/12/2006 at 5:30 PM and reported that a family had been killed in their house and that it was believed to have been done by Anti Iraq forces or "others".
In Item #12, SOI5 (source of information) says that on 3/11/2006 an Iraqi approached him and told him the house had been burned. The Iraqi said four were dead and one had been raped. An HOUR later, Iraqi army personnel and four US soldiers, including SOI5, went to the scene and presumably took the photos.
So did the event happen on 3/11 or 3/12? If SOI5 is correct, then the bodies would have been in the morgue by 3/12 and a 3/11 report would have been discovered by the CID.
Item #6 says that during a combat stress debriefing on 6/20/06 it was determined that these members of the 4th Infantry division commited this crime. Yet all the previous reports say that two guys were debriefed, neither an eyewitness. One said that he overheard guys talking about it, and another said that he heard that the guys burned their clothes. And it was not until 6/24/06 that the invistigation from CIS started. Therefore Item 6 is factually wrong to say it was "determined" on 6/20/06 that our men did this.
In Item #8, SOI1 says SOI2 and KP1 (known participant) changed clothes before heading to the house. Then he says that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 all burned their clothes when they got back. First, SOI3 supposedly stayed guard at the door fo the house, so why would he burn his clothes? And if he was in uniform, would he really burn his uniform at a checkpoint and stand there in his skivvies? 2nd, was SOI1 really dumb enough to man the checkpoint by himself while these guys went raping and pillaging, especially since one of the M4s they took belonged to SOI1?
In Item #10, SOI2 states "Green went into the bedroom to keep the rest of the family there" and that "KP1 threw a woman to the floor". After Green killed the family, SOI2 states that he witnessed "Green and KP1 rape the woamn that SOI3 had thrown to the floor". So who threw the rape victim to the floor?? SOI3 was supposedly standing guard outside the house.
In Item #11, SOI3 says that SOI2 ordered him to toss the AK-47 used by Green into the canal. SOI2 does not mention (items #9 and #10) that he asked SOI3 to get rid of AK-47.
Item #13 is the photo evidence. If this photo evidence was taken 3/11/06 by the Iraqi and US soldiers that went to investigate per item #12 (SOI5's version) then something is terribly amiss about the timing of this story.
You can think that, unless SOI5 is correct. Then the 3/12 murders, as claimed, did not happen.
One central question remains: why would two servicemembers implicate themselves in a horrible set of crimes if they didn't happen?
There are more disturbing elements in the rumors circulating in Iraq - that there was hair and clothing and buttons left in the dead girl's hands. That, if true, might explain why the SOI5 knew the girl had been raped.
Which ones said they raped and/or killed anyone?
Per the affidavit:
SOI1 testified that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 went to the house.
SOI1 stayed at TCP2 to monitor radio.
SOI3 dumped AK47 found at house (probably murder weapon)
SOI2 and SOI3 testified SG murdered, SG and KP1 raped.
SOI4 heard rumors(?) and asked SOI1 "Who Did it" SOI1 disclosed to SOI4.
SOI5 was at TCP when initial report was made to military.
SOI2 went to the house to investigate with others.
Other:
Four in custody in Iraq (Probably SOI1, SOI2, SOI3, KP1)
SG arrested in US.
Yep. No one has confessed to rape or murder yet.
You've got the cases mixed up. It was reported and said by one of the lawyers that one/some of the Pendleton 8 was/were threatened with the death penalty.
Do you have a link to the above info/rumors that you have provided?
True. OTOH, those that testified they witnessed murder/rape at the same time implicated themselves in the preparation and execution of the 'plan'.
1) #8 Why did SOI1 not stop them when they went to rape the woman? This reads like he knew what was going to happen. Perhaps it is just written poorly and he only learned their real intent after the fact. As written, it reflects badly on SOI1.
2) You had a question as to why SOI1 let them take his M4. The four soldiers left with 4 weapons (3 - M4's and a shotgun). So this means that one of them left SOI1 with their weapon. So SOI1 is probably well armed.
3) #8 implies that all four burned their clothes. But given that SOI2 and SOI3 allegedly did 'nothing' at the event - why would they have blood on their clothes? This is probably just poorly written. Based on the stated conduct, I would expect that only GREEN and KP1 would need to burn their clothes.
4) #8 says that when confronted by SOI4 as to "Who did it?" he said "everyone who was there". So why is SOI2 are SOI3 listed as 'sources of information' and not as 'known participants' KP2 and KP3? They certiainly engaged in conduct that is actionable - and by their own signed sworn statements.
5) #9 why did SOI2 not put a stop to the plot at that point? Why did he go if he did not participate in the rape? Why did he change clothes? Why did SOI3 go with them?
6) #10 is flaky. First it is KP1 who threw the woman to the ground and then it is SOI3. Since SOI3 is guarding the door, it is likely just a typo. It is not a minor point as it relates to how involved SOI3 was in the crime.
7) #10 and #11. Those are some rough guys to want to have sex just after they killed a three people.
8) #11. SOI3 gives some damning evidence against himself here. Notice that while SOI2 said the woman had been thrown to the ground, SOI3 does not say anything about that. Perhaps because he was guilty of doing that. Perhaps because he was not in the room til the gunshots happened.
9) It can't be much fun mounting guard duty while two guys have their fun. How much time did that take?
10) #12. Whoops. The date error you spotted is there.
Also a typo as 'soldiers' is spelt 'solders'.
Thanks for the ping pissant!
Because the wer "sources of information". KP2 would indicate they were NOT sources of information.
Here. Listen to the report itself.
This is an affidavit to execute an arrest warrant. Not all information is provided. Just enough to get the warrant.
Read it again. You have two witnesses confessing to planning' being accomplices to; and then covering up a rape and four murders.
Perhaps all that shooting got him out of the mood?
ick. NPR source. I trust them to get it right about as much as I trust CBS or the BBC.
This is the report that claims the woman was 14-15. The military report says she was 25ish.
I've read it so much I have it memorized.
If this turns about to be true, we may find a change of status for SO12 and SO13 at least by Monday 7/10/06 after the preliminary hearing and detention hearing for Steve Green.
Presently the 4 that are still in Iraq have had their weapons taken and are on lock down.
Yes they did.
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