Posted on 07/04/2006 11:16:49 PM PDT by Spiff
Despite the consistent failure of all guest worker plans (e.g., France), Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) is peddling a new plan to import foreign workers who really are guests and really do go home. Pence has turned his back on the 88 percent of House Republicans who voted that we must achieve border security first, because we'll be cheated on border security if Congress passes a "comprehensive" bill.
The Pence plan tries to avoid the amnesty label by requiring illegal aliens now in the U.S. to make what he calls "a quick trip across the border" to Mexico or Canada to pick up a new W visa. A foreigner could get a W visa only if a U.S. employer certifies that a job awaits him.
Pence's plan calls for setting up privately financed offices outside the U.S., with the cutesy title Ellis Island Centers, to hand out the new W visas, which he claims would be more efficient than government bureaucracy. Business would, indeed, be more efficient than government in importing more foreign workers.
Having private employment agencies distribute the W visas would put the fox in charge of the chicken coop. Private industry has a built-in incentive to import as much cheap labor as possible.
Pence says that the Ellis Island Centers will be able to match workers with jobs, perform health screening, fingerprinting, and convey information to the FBI and Homeland Security for a background check in "a matter of one week, or less." We'll have to see that to believe it.
What about the millions of illegal aliens in the U.S. today who do not have an employer willing to go on record as guaranteeing a job for a foreigner? These would include the relatives of jobholders, the day laborers, and the millions of illegal aliens working in the U.S. underground cash economy (an estimated 40 percent of the total).
Pence's bill is silent on this and his staff predicts that the free market will provide the answers. Pence told Time Magazine his bill "will require the 12 million illegal aliens to leave."
What about the hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens who are not Mexicans? Illegal aliens will not have to return to their home country, but only appear at an Ellis Island Center anywhere outside the U.S. to pick up their papers. Will Mexico and Canada put out the welcome mat for a mass exodus of illegal aliens from the U.S.?
The Pence plan provides that the guest workers, after living here legally for six years under the protection of a W visa, can choose whether to apply for citizenship or to return home. If guest workers don't apply for citizenship, will Pence hire buses to deport them after they have raised a family and established roots?
Six years is ample time to have a U.S.-born anchor baby, or two or three, which starts family chain migration. Any attempt to deal with the racket of birthright citizenship would linger at least six years in the courts.
The Pence promise that employers would have to offer jobs to Americans first is a sick joke. American engineers and computer techies who lost their jobs to foreigners under the H-1B visa guest-worker racket know that a look-for-Americans-first rule is never enforced and easily evaded.
Pence revealed an amazing open-ended part of his plan in his Wall Street Journal article: "My immigration reform plan does not favor illegal immigrants. Anyone may apply for a guest-worker visa at the new Ellis Island Centers; indeed, the plan may actually work to the advantage of applicants who have never violated our immigration laws, since guest-worker visas will be issued only outside the U.S."
Anyone may apply? From anywhere in the world? And without any limits? Pence wrote, "There will initially be no cap on the number of visas that can be issued."
The Pew Hispanic Center surveyed 120 locations in Mexico and concluded that 49 million Mexicans want to live in the United States if they get the opportunity.
If Pence's "guest worker" plan actually worked, and the guests voluntarily go home after six years, it would mean instituting a system that is immoral and un-American. Inviting foreigners to come to America to do jobs that Americans think they are too good to do creates a subordinate underclass of unassimilated foreign workers, like the serf or peasant classes that exist in corrupt foreign countries such as Mexico.
That's not the kind of economy that made America a great nation. As Theodore Roosevelt warned: "Never under any condition should this nation look at an immigrant as primarily a labor unit."
Pence and others who promote "guest worker" plans have a favorite mantra: "Let the free market solve our economic problems." Americans should realize that a global, or even a Western Hemisphere free market, means forcing American workers to compete with people who work for 50 cents an hour.
Letting the free market decide our future also requires loss of sovereignty to some kind of multinational government, as the European Union found out. Is the real push behind guest-worker proposals the Bush goal to expand NAFTA into the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which he signed at Waco last year and reaffirmed at Cancun this year?
No argument there. Schlafly just makes a point to attack anyone who doesn't see the world like she does. Pence finally realizes that the only way this issue is going to move foreward is with a small amount of compromise. At the end of the day, the extremes of the political spectrum are going to end up with nothing, no matter what happens. They'll be terminally and perpetually ticked off and forever remain irrelevant.
I can't help but ignore them. All these people do is run down their opposition personally. She's not my favorite person, but she is a great conservative and deserves better. They can't respond to her writing, so they call her harpy and try to smear her. I guess it takes one to know one, and nobody would know better than the FROBL crowd.
I thought Dane and sinkspur were unimpressive but you two have really raised (lowered?) the bar.
You should take great pride in your lack of accomplishments. I've always said one should strive to be the best at whatever one attempts.
You two are really showing that 'can't do' spirit.
My compliments.
L
But Ronald Reagan went way beyond amnesty. Reagan proposed totally open borders with Mexico. His program was called the North American Accord. All a Mexican needed under the Reagan plan was a Mexican birth certificate and he or she could come to the USA live and work where they wanted and never have to go home to Mexico. Reagan wanted Mexicans treated just like Canadians. NO visa or passport reqired .. just a Mexican birth certificate.
Reagan on open borders during his time in office.
Reagan on immigration and open borders in 1989
Are you sure you are still a Reagan Man. Reagan at one point even spoke out against a fence along the Mexican border.
Are the two of you that dense, or is this a concerted strategy to attempt to drive people to madness? No Freeper can possibly be that stupid...can they?
"1) You Lie about my calling him a Liberal.
2) Instead of apologizing for this Lie, you infer I was secretly thinking it so I am not due an apology but instead further insult.
3) You Lie about my being a one issue poster though posting history clearly indicates otherwise.
4) And you still refuse to debate Schlafly's points but instead skate around on insults and lies to deflect from the fact Pence's plan has been exposed as amnesty. If not, you wouldn't be afraid to debate the points she lists in the articles with facts that state otherwise.
I'm quite aware you feel these tactics are successful? But I guarentee for every person who posts in this thread, far more are reading along willing to be convinced Pence does not support amnesty. And you haven't converted a single one of them with this display. Which is the only reason I am addressing you and some other tonight. You cannot defend his proposal, and they are witnessing that for themselves.
I'll try to simplify this so it is understandable for your reading level. Pence is a conservative. Most conservatives do not wish to feel they've been deserted by a conservative on a critical issue. They are open to being convinced this is not the case. They are open to being convinced he doesn't support amnesty...
Now follow along here, I know this part tricked the two of you up before. I didn't say he didn't support amnesty, I said there are open to being convinced he does not. All the two of you had to do was address Schlafly without malice and take her point by point disproving her allegations with fact after fact. You proved yourselves not up to that task. Instead these readers are treated to two people that didn't properly comprehend the sentence in their eagerness for an "ah-ha" moment, that they embarassed themselves instead.
You had the opportunity to win converts to Pence's proposal by treating thia article seriously and engaging her in debate with fact, and you chose the opposite. As a result I'd willingly bet some of those readers willing to be convinced Pence isn't supporting amnesty, have come away with the opposite opinion. The correct opinion, but one you are helping to shape for which I thank you.
This is of course why I'm drawing you out on record continually, as I feel it helps my cause. the only wonder is that you are willing aides to this cause and how long you'll continue to be. :-)
Did Newt explain the shortcomings in the existing laws that needs reforming?
Did Newt ever explain exactly what prevents the Bush Administration from enforcing them in their present form?
Did Newt explain how exactly this *new* law is going to coerce the executive branch into enforcing the new laws when they refuse to enforce the ones already on the books?
LOL! Not what you said before...but hey, I understand, when you're grasping at straws you have to hold on to any thing.
ACU is pleased to provide a transcript of the congressman's speech, legislation from which he will soon be introducing.
So there is no Bill yet. Just a proposal and a promise of a Bill at some point in the future.
Once again you're shown to be either ignorant or a liar.
My money is on both. I mean if anyone could pull off a twofer like that it would be you.
L
Yep, I'll go with Newt.
Oh, you missed one. There was also another misrepresentation, where it's claimed the border control folks have an 0-2 record. The Bilbray victory in California is turned into a loss for some reason unknown to me.
This thread is an embarrassment for FR's free trade, pro-open-borders crowd, who cannot post a response with substance. Some of us would naturally lean their way with a reasoned discussion. I am generally against government intervention--but they can't even make that argument. They have nothing to offer.
Why do you think WE can convince you when Pence's own words fail to convince you along with Newt's and Barone's?You are like a child that keeps running back and forth wanting someone else to make your decision for you.
LOL! Unlike the brilliant victory you folks scored last week in Utah.
Of course it is the same.
This is twice tonight you've had a problem with comprehension. First with an article, now with a posting.
Maybe the problem here is that I'm typing in English and the article was in English. Would my point have been clearer to you if I used another language perhaps?
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to address Schlafly's points. In whatever language that you are more comfortable with.
Let's stick to the subject at hand. Gingrich is a quitter. Tancredo isn't.
Perhaps you can explain the shortcomings in the existing immigration laws that need reforming.
Perhaps you can explain why the Bush administration refuses to enforce the existing laws.
Perhaps you can explain what the new laws will do that will cause the executive branch to enforce the new laws when they refuse to enforce the ones already on the books.
ROFLMAO...for somewho who had their arse handed to them in a national referendum last week and somehow thinks it was a victory.
"You had the opportunity to win converts to Pence's proposal by treating thia article seriously and engaging her in debate with fact, and you chose the opposite. As a result I'd willingly bet some of those readers willing to be convinced Pence isn't supporting amnesty, have come away with the opposite opinion. The correct opinion, but one you are helping to shape for which I thank you."
Much credit goes to you for putting up with them. I don't even find them worthy of posting to any more. They really CAN'T do anything but smear their opponents. How many times have you asked them to do otherwise?
Gingrich was a leader who knew when to quit, Tancredo isn't a leader and doesn't know when to quit.
Ah, yes, identity politics. It is childish in the extreme to prefer focus on the actual proposal then signees. Silly me.
Though you are clearly unmoved by the conservatives AGAINST pence's proposal. Seems to be a double standard here?
Still, not a single one of you is addressing Schlafly's points or even Pence's proposal in depth.
I wonder, can we get to a 1000 posts and still not have ONE of you have the courage to do so? What are you afraid of that you refuse to debate the details? Surely if it's not amnesty you should be eager to take up the challange.
You can start with the part of Pence's proposal that proposes a brief mini vacation to Mexico for a quick registration before they are allowed to return to live in the U.S. working right where they left off witout consequence for having broken the law.
Sorry, Chief, but that's another topic for another thread.
Perhaps you can explain the shortcomings in the existing immigration laws that need reforming. IOW, why do we need Pence's laws?
Perhaps you can explain why the Bush administration refuses to enforce the existing laws.
You're a big fan of Pence's plan. Perhaps you can explain what the new laws will do that will cause the executive branch to enforce the new laws when they refuse to enforce the ones already on the books.
Shafley is a Tancredo sock puppet so she is not worth a response and you can read the Pence proposal yourself and make up your own mind. I strongly suspect you will just choose to ignore it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.