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Bush Signaling Shift in Stance on Immigration (Moving Toward Pence Plan)
NY Times ^ | 7/5/06 | SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

Posted on 07/04/2006 7:38:49 PM PDT by nj26

On the eve of nationwide hearings that could determine the fate of his immigration bill, President Bush is signaling a new willingness to negotiate with House Republicans in an effort to revise stalled legislation before Election Day.

Republicans both inside and outside the White House say Mr. Bush, who has long insisted on comprehensive reform, is now open to a so-called enforcement-first approach that would put new border security programs in place before creating a guest worker program or path to citizenship for people living in the United States illegally.

"He thinks that this notion that you can have triggers is something we should take a close look at, and we are," said Candi Wolff, the White House director of legislative affairs, referring to the idea that guest worker and citizenship programs would be triggered when specific border security goals had been met, a process that could take two years.

The shift is significant because Mr. Bush has repeatedly said he favors legislation like the Senate's immigration bill, which establishes border security, guest worker and citizenship programs all at once. The enforcement-first approach puts Mr. Bush one step closer to the House, where Republicans are demanding an enforcement-only measure.

"The willingness to consider a phased-in situation, that's a pretty big concession from where they were at," said Representative Tom Cole, Republican of Oklahoma, whose closeness to Mr. Bush dates to his days as a top Republican National Committee official. "It's a suggestion they are willing to negotiate."

In a sign of that willingness, the White House last week invited a leading conservative proponent of an enforcement-first bill, Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, to present his ideas to Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney in the Oval Office.

Ms. Wolff said the president found the Pence plan "pretty intriguing."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; aliens; amnesty; danetakesaholiday; dubyasheadfake; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigration; immigrationplan; term2
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To: nj26
Republicans both inside and outside the White House say Mr. Bush, who has long insisted on comprehensive reform, is now open to a so-called enforcement-first approach that would put new border security programs in place before creating a guest worker program or path to citizenship for people living in the United States illegally.

He's always wanted amnesty, but now he's worried about his legacy.

261 posted on 07/05/2006 12:51:07 AM PDT by Penner
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To: Texasforever
No, BUsh/Rove want a solution to the problem...

Destroying the sovereignty of the United States is a solution to millions of illegal invaders? Are you an American?

262 posted on 07/05/2006 3:44:04 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: Texasforever
Man it must suck to be that obsessed.

You mean like your obsession with granting millions of illegals amnesty?

263 posted on 07/05/2006 3:46:18 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: CWOJackson
You folks are more desperate then even I thought.

By "you folks" do you mean law-abiding Americans as opposed to the "folks" that want to reward millions of illegals with the rights of citizenship they have not earned?

264 posted on 07/05/2006 3:50:41 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: Prokopton
I seriously wonder if these posters are not just liberal agitators, their postings support that they certainly are not conservative.

I think they work in karl rove's office.

265 posted on 07/05/2006 3:54:42 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: Texasforever
The names I call them are compliments compared to what I really feel they are.

I think you are traitor hell bent on destroying the culture of America.

266 posted on 07/05/2006 3:56:56 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: RedRover

Thank you!


267 posted on 07/05/2006 6:17:35 AM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde
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To: FreeReign

You either miss the point or refuse to get it. Just because Pence calls them "guest workers" doesn't make it so. The Clintonesque use of the language is meant to disguise what is happening. You seem to have bought it.

The path to citizenship is very clear. After the 12 to 20 million illegals self-deport for less than a week and are transformed into "guest workers," they can renew their W visas for up to six years and then have the option of returning home or applying for citizenship here. Pence doesn't indicate whether the W visa holders will be able to bring their families. If someone has been here since the last amnesty in 1986, there is no way that they are going to be deported. especially after spending an additional six years in "guest worker" status.

You are the one lacking specifics. The Pence Plan is quite specific about how the illegals will be dealt with. Just like McCain-Kennedy who deny that their plan is amnesty, Pence does the same thing. But the facts give the lie to such claims. We are rewarding people for illegal behavior.

LOL, I call it an "amnesty-type advantage" and then I call it an "amnesty" in several parts of my post and you give me some BS about using a euphemism for an amnesty.

So you agree that the Pence Plan is amnesty despite his claim that it isn't?

I've made my point and as I said before, add an enforcement first HR4437 type plan and I will gladly consider the above-type of amnesty if enforcement works over time. I think most of the country will too.

You didn't make your point and that is the problem. You are still trying to avoid calling it amnesty outright. It is not a "type of" amnesty, it is amnesty. Most of the American people want enforcement first and no additional guest worker program. The Pence plan will increae the number of guest workers by legalizing the 12 to 20 million here and allowing more to come in over the initial three year period of the plan with no cap on the numbers. It is worse than the Senate bill.

268 posted on 07/05/2006 6:59:31 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Agreed.

I think GWB was playing with the politics south of the border. Now that the "conservative" fellow seems to have been elected, he now believes it is a better time to negotiate with the House and Tacredo types.

Until then, in order to keep the lefty out, he had to stick to his open borders personal preference in order to avoid rallying the lefty's base.

It has always been a non sequitor to say that border security must be linked to a guest worker/amensty plan.


269 posted on 07/05/2006 7:24:04 AM PDT by HonestConservative (Its Snowing!)
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To: HonestConservative
It has always been a non sequitor to say that border security must be linked to a guest worker/amensty plan.

Agreed. The Senate Dems/RINOs are making that linkage to hold border enforcement hostage to their amnesty and guest worker plan. There must be sequencing to shut off the supply first. I don't see any great sense of urgency of dealing with those who are already here. Before we can make good public policy, we need to get a handle on the size and scope of the problem. We don't even have a good idea of how many illegals are in the country with the numbers flucuating from 9 to 20 million.

270 posted on 07/05/2006 7:31:40 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
The Pence plan appears to be a guest worker type amnesty. Under the plan, illegal aliens in this country go home and apparently jump the guest worker line to get back in this country. They jump all lines and are able to obtain legal status to work here, i.e., a W visa... No they aren't jumping "all" lines. We've only established that they cut the guest worker line, the W visa being another guest worker visa. But we haven't established how many people if any they are cutting, as your 6 million figure was unrelated to any guest worker visa line.

Yes, it is an amnesty type advantage to wait in country for a a green card, but three things. (1)They aren't cutting in front of others waiting in the green card line; (2) they aren't voting as citizens; (3) we don't see a slug of new voting citizens like we did under Reagan's amnesty without an increase in the green card quotas. There's the "amnesty".

Now add to that an enforcement first HR4437 type plan and I will gladly consider the above-type of amnesty if enforcement works over time.

You either miss the point or refuse to get it. Just because Pence calls them "guest workers" doesn't make it so. The Clintonesque use of the language is meant to disguise what is happening. You seem to have bought it.

My friend, I specifically described the components of the Pence plan that are amnesty. You seem incapable of talking past labels and talking toward specifics.

So you agree that the Pence Plan is amnesty despite his claim that it isn't?

LOL, read my post.

You didn't make your point and that is the problem. You are still trying to avoid calling it amnesty outright. It is not a "type of" amnesty, it is amnesty.

Really, seriously, you've got to be kidding. I specifically defined the components of the plan that are amnesty components. Then I went on to say that I would want to see enforcement working for a period of time before I would consider the plan with its components of amnesty.

The problem is there was no bogey man aspect to my response so you have to -- miss it.

271 posted on 07/05/2006 7:46:02 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
Really, seriously, you've got to be kidding. I specifically defined the components of the plan that are amnesty components.

The Pence Plan is amnesty. You continue to try to obfuscate and parse your language. Amnesty components? The 614 page Senate bill has amnesty components. And yes, the 12 to 20 million illegals do jump to the head of the line and are allowed to work and live in the US while applying for it. The Pence Plan also increases the number of guest workers with no cap during the first three years. The Pence Plan rewards illegal behavior.

From a practical standpoint, the Pence plan won't work. It will take far more than one week to do background checks, which must be done in the US and the home country. As someone who has had practical experience in processing and issuing visas, the Pence Plan is totally unworkable.

My friend, I specifically described the components of the Pence plan that are amnesty. You seem incapable of talking past labels and talking toward specifics.

I have provided the specifics, you haven't. The idea that various components of the Pence Plan can be addressed separately is nonsense. It stands and falls on its own in its entirety. Otherwise, it is no longer the Pence Plan.

Really, seriously, you've got to be kidding. I specifically defined the components of the plan that are amnesty components. Then I went on to say that I would want to see enforcement working for a period of time before I would consider the plan with its components of amnesty.

The House bill provides an enforcement first approach. It doesn't address guest worker programs. If you are going to take the enforcement portion of the Pence Plan, which is essentially the House bill, why are the "amnesty components" even germane? Either you are for the Pence Plan or you are not. The Pence Plan is amnesty. You are defending the indefensible.

272 posted on 07/05/2006 8:39:56 AM PDT by kabar
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To: CWOJackson

"Pssssssst, Tancredo calls the Pence Plan amnesty. He's opposed to it."


Psssssst, Tancredo calls the Pence Plan amnesty because that's exactly what it is.


273 posted on 07/05/2006 9:06:57 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (Tancredo '08)
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To: nj26

"The question now is whether President Bush will be able to find that middle ground in time for the midterm elections. Mr. Cole, the Oklahoma Republican, was not optimistic.

"Our people would like to have some sort of solution," he said, "but my instinct tells me this is much more likely to be a post-November, or a 2007 kind of deal than it is to happen between now and then.""

Are we to assume that the House will go ahead and open the borders and grant citizenship, but just not before the Nov. 2006 elections? I've seen so many statements that make it seem as if immigration will open up, but just not NOW. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


274 posted on 07/05/2006 9:07:53 AM PDT by Joann37
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To: Paladin2
It's seems clear to me that AG AG doesn't believe that the US is a nation of laws wrt illegal immigration. He certainly has no interest in enforcing same.

Bert certainly has a hard on for enforcing gun laws though.

275 posted on 07/05/2006 9:56:52 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: Texasforever
I predicted a month ago that if Bush get's the Pence bill he will sign it gladley.

When has Bush not signed ANYTHING gladly?

276 posted on 07/05/2006 9:57:30 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: nj26
Bush will say what has to be said to fool GOP Congressmen and women, and as soon as that's done, he'll ram amnesty down our throats. I fear they will cave in from all the pressure. Pence's bill is amnesty "light" and just another way to try to fool Americans. Even if they send Mexicans back home and then let them come right back in and get amnesty. They can call it what they want, but amnesty is still amnesty. It doesn't make any difference how they get it. The bottom line is that Americans get screwed!!!
277 posted on 07/05/2006 1:34:06 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (NEVER ARGUE WITH IDIOTS!!! THEY*LL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE!!!!)
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To: nj26
The White House knows they lost, and are shifting position to accomodate the will of the American citizens that will vote in November's election.

It's just another attempt to fool Americans!! The White House doesn't think they lost. They're just changing tactics to get what they want. Amnesty!!

278 posted on 07/05/2006 1:36:46 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (NEVER ARGUE WITH IDIOTS!!! THEY*LL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE!!!!)
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To: pollyannaish

You disagree, Polly?


279 posted on 07/05/2006 4:57:07 PM PDT by Savage Beast (9/11 was never repeated--thanks to President George Bush and his supurb leadership.)
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To: nj26

btt


280 posted on 07/05/2006 5:00:23 PM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.)
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