Posted on 07/01/2006 6:07:10 PM PDT by pigdog
Illegal Immigrants and Others Working Off the Books Cost the U.S. Hundreds of Billions of Dollars in Unpaid Taxes
America has two economies: First, there's the legitimate economy, in which craftsmen are licensed and employers and employees pay taxes. Then there's the fast-growing underground economy, where millions of nannies, construction workers, landscapers and others are paid off the books, their incomes largely untaxed. The best guess as to the size of the output of this shadow economy is about $970 billion, or nearly 9% that of the real economy. It could soon pass $1 trillion.
What is largely fueling the underground economy, experts say, is the nation's growing ranks of low-wage, illegal immigrants. The government puts this population at 8.5 million, but that may represent a serious undercount. Robert Justich, a senior managing director at Bear Stearns Asset Management, makes a persuasive case in a recent research report that illegal immigrants actually number 18 million to 20 million. If that's true, the economic implications are profound and could help shape this year's debates over both immigration policies and tax reform.
(Excerpt) Read more at wsjclassroom.com ...
Read your statement. They will not be taxed/but they will get a rebate to offset the tax???WTF is this BS?
The poorest may even get a larger check--How are you going to know they are the poorest without being able to verify their income?
That takes a wad of employees and facilities--and money!
How in the hell is it going to save money to issue everyone a check 12 times a year?
Is that going to take a smaller bureaucracy than the one that issues a check once a year to SOME people?
How are you going to track who gets how large a check address changes, etc except with a HUGE bureaucracy?
I don't need to read more if this is what y'all are spewing. It is just a shell game.
Don't even talk to me about naive.
They will not be taxed on necesities because they get a rebate to offset the tax.
They'll still have to pony up at the register, but will be able to use the rebate funds to pay the tax. That's how necessity spending is untaxed for everyone who chooses to receive the rebate.
You won't know they're the poorest because you won't need to verify anyone's income. You may reasonably conclude that someone who doesn't even have enough to buy his necessities of life is one of the poorest.
By eliminating the 11 billion per year in IRS costs and replacing it with adding some computers and personnel to the existing SS Admin, who already sends money to folks monthly.
No, not smaller. But not near as large as the IRS.
First the prebate check they get every month and, Second,the elimination the social security taxes that come out of their paychecks. The NSRT would raise the standard of living of the working poor faster than the middle class.
The same way the SS Admin does it today.
If you think that the added personnel will even be close to the size of the IRS, I'd like to know your rationale.
You don't need to read anymore if you see it as spew.
Doesn't anyone see the extra steps here???
Doesn't anyone understand that each of those steps means more bureaucracy, more expense, and more taxes???
You take the money and refund it later? Why even take it in the first place???
If y'all want to reform things how about a little efficiency and common sense?
In my state food purchased for consumption off premises is not taxed. There is no rebate. Everyone is treated equally, the poor do not have to fork over extra and wait for a check. There is no bureaucracy to issue rebate checks because the taxes are never collected. Think about it, willya?
Doesn't anyone see the extra steps here???
Of course. Don't you see that it's far less complex than what we have now?
What makes you think that exempting certain items would be better? Or are you asserting that tracking individuals' incomes is better than not tracking it?
Because it would be far worse to either exempt items or track everyone's income.
I lived in a state where Doritos was a "snack" and was taxed, but Fritos were "unprepared food" and was not taxed. This is the kind of thing we have now in DC. Tax break for this guy, that company, etc.... all used as political power.
One of the principal advantages of an nrst like this is that it taxes all peoples' discretionary spending and all goods and services the same, with the same rate.
That puts us all against an increase in tax and puts us all in favor of a tax cut.
Am I to take from this that you think our current system is full of efficiency and common sense? I don't think it is.
Why would we discourage productivity?
Why would we discourage savings in favor of consumption?
Why would we increase the price of our exports to further disadvantage US manufacturers?
Why are there so many tax form, tax accountants, tax lawyers?
Why cannot even Money Magazine use 50 professionals (including some IRS agents IIRC) and get even TWO results that are the same when looking at sample tax return information?
Why do we encourage illegal immigration by allowing them pay no taxes?
Why do we use a system for SS that doesn't work?
Now, the nrst is not perfect obviously - but it is the best alternative IMO - which is why I support it - and 55 or so congressmen and millions of individual citizens, and multiple affinity groups.
Who decides what is food taxed?
Who polices whether you're off premises?
Any system has to have oversight. IMO the nrst has the least expensive and least intrusive vehicle for doing so.
I've thought a lot about it. Years.
That's good. The nrst does this too IMO.
the poor do not have to fork over extra and wait for a check.
Nor do the poor - or anyone else - have to wait for a check under the nrst.
There is no bureaucracy to issue rebate checks
But there is a bureaucracy that devised the definition of food, defines when it's taxed or not, and has an entire lobbying industry designed to send tax breaks to a certain company or person.
...because the taxes are never collected.
Which is why the sales on everything else has to be higher.
Most state/county/municipalities could cut their sales tax rate by half or more by eliminating the exemptions.
Maybe filling out the forms for the average consumer is less complex. The retailer has a load of paperwork to do, though. Want to bet they will have to provide inventory/sales statements to curtail fraud??
It is no less labor intensive from a government standpoint, either. Address changes will have to be tracked on a monthly basis, deaths, births, etc. That won't happen cheaply. SO do away with the IRS, or more accurately, rename and expand it to take care of that workload. NOT CHEAPER, PERIOD.
What makes you think that exempting certain items would be better?
If you do not tax the necessities, you don't need to shuffle the money around through the government labor mill and re-issue it as checks for rebates. Why take it out of their pocket and put it in their mailbox? Just nevermind. Save a grundle.
Or are you asserting that tracking individuals' incomes is better than not tracking it?
If the poorest folks are going to get more of a rebate than the average schmuck, you have to be able to tell they are, in fact, the poorest. That means you will be tracking income for the whole shooting match. (Keep in mind that those making money on a cash basis will have no documentation of that income and leave this whole shebang wide open to fraud.)
Again, though, more bureaucracy.
In fact, instead of saving labor, this would create a whole pile of new jobs, verifying addreess changes on a monthly basis, income for the 'poorest', births, deaths, all stuff that is done annually now would be done on a monthly basis, even issuing checks. That sounds 12 times as expensive, not cheaper.
Audits would have to be made on a more frequent basis as well. Nowhere along the line do I see money being saved, except for the people who are whining about having to fill out the current crop of tax forms--and only on that. The extra government to administer the programs just noted above should more than offset any individual savings in aggregate, because it will take a much larger agency to administer and oversee this, and the expenses of simply cutting and delivering 300,000,000 checks a month will eat that and more.
That's wrong. The rebate is not related in any way to income. Were you unaware?
QFE!
Of course they'll have to be subject to the tax police - and they already are in states with state sales taxes. Nothing new there.
What is new is that no individual will be subject to the tax police anymore.
You aren't aware of the most basic fundamentals of the bill. You could read it or parts of it at the Thomas Library of Congress website (enter HR 25) if you wanted to know about it.
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