Tiger Force: A True Story of Men and War (BookTV headsup 7-1-06)

BookTV (C-Span2 weekends) ^ | 7-1-06 | (uncredited)

[VOA]

History on Book TV
A look at non-fiction history books.

On Saturday, July 1 at 11:30 pm

Tiger Force: A True Story of Men and War
Michael Sallah & Mitch Weiss

Description: Pulitzer-Prize winners Michael Sallah and Mitch Weiss discuss
their book "Tiger Force." Tiger Force is an investigation into
a reconnaissance platoon, created in 1965 to report air strikes and to
kill the enemy in Vietnam.The authors tells stories of the killings that
took place at the hands of the Tiger Force soldiers during the Vietnam War.

According to the authors this was the longest series of atrocities
committed during the war. These events did not become of public
knowledge until three years ago. Michael Sallah, Mitch Weiss, and a
fellow reporter received the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for investigative
reporting for their coverage of the story in the Toledo Blade.

(bolded text done by poster VOA for emphasis)

[VOA]

I'm just posting this TV Heads up for those wanting to see this book review
TODAY (Saturday 7-1-06) on BookTV (C-Span2) at 11:30PM EASTERN.

I've not read the book, but did find there were some threads
indexed (here at FR) under keyword "TIGERFORCE", so I thought some
posters/lurkers might want to see this review...and debate the
veracity of the claims the authors have made. Especially given the
controveries of recent years on both Bob Kerry and John Kerry's
service in Vietnam.

[VOA]

bump for publicity

[brazzaville]

Good morning.

I know for a fact that atrocities do happen, but I thought that this was shown to be a poorly substantiated anti war hit piece in the same vein as the Tailwind lies.

Prove to me that I'm wrong and I'll keep an open mind on the issue.

Michael Frazier

[VOA]

"I know for a fact that atrocities do happen, but I thought that this was shown to
be a poorly substantiated anti war hit piece in the same vein as the Tailwind lies."

As I said I've not read the book...I just happened across this as I usually
check to see if BookTV has anything interesting on the weekends.

I suspect that your take on the book is reasonable...amongst the 29 readers' reviews
at Amazon, there are some "One-Star" reviews. Some of them detail the
failings of the book in substantive ways.
I'm just hoping I alerted those who'd like to see the authors
review the book and maybe they can tell us just how strong/weak a
case they've made for their accusations.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316159972/qid=1151775479/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-5337720-0329448?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[VOA]

"I know for a fact that atrocities do happen,..."

Of course they happen.
Only folks like Patsy Schroeder could think of war (and the killing attendant)
as something that could ever be executed in a "sensitive" fashion.
(As she described one of Clinton's strikes on Saddam).

For people that are second-guessing every move made by our volunteer force
in the WOT, they really should read the book listed at the Amazon page linked below.
And see that even "The Greatest Generation" understandably acted in a fashion
that would make strong men faint...when encountering a fanatical enemy.
(A Five-Star rating from 130 readers...I don't know if I've seen that
at Amazon before)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195067142/qid=1151775991/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-5337720-0329448?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[LS]

FWIW, my talk at John Locke Foundation next Thurs. is being filmed for "Book TV" for "America's Victories."

[VOA]

"FWIW, my talk at John Locke Foundation next Thurs. is being filmed for "Book TV"
for "America's Victories.""

Congratulations! There are only so many BookTV time slots, so that's quite
an accomplishment!

Have you been given any sort of indication of when it might actually air?

I'll keep my eyes open for it when I do my weekly check of the BookTV schedule
(link below for posters/lurkers for those who want to see this weekend's offerings)

http://www.booktv.org/schedule/

[VOA]

bump for publicity

[womcg]

I know a little about the "true story" of the 1/327th Tiger Force, and have followed the evolution of this piece since it 1st hit the Toledo Blade Sunday supplement. It sounded to me like an anti-war, S. Hirsh (?) style hit job without than anything of substance. They wanted a "My Lai" story on a proud and respected unit. I think some of the "witnesses" are ex VC and NVA. I will wait and see what other Tiger Force vets say.

[VOA]

They wanted a "My Lai" story on a proud and respected unit. I think some of
the "witnesses" are ex VC and NVA. I will wait and see what other Tiger Force vets say.

That was my sneaking suspicion.
During the news reportage attendent John Kerry's campaign
and the mention of "in a style reminiscent of Ghenghis Khan"...
I thought I read that the US Military had responded to the atrocities
mentioned in the Winter Soldier meetings.
And that the military investigators hadn't gotten anybody to
start reeling off tales of atrocities even with offers of full immunity.
Not even revelations of having seen other soldiers commit them.

It will be interesting to hear the authors of the book lay out their case.
(and I won't be suprised if their case is just a mantra of "they were
all baby-killers")

Not saying there couldn't have been some actions that pushed
(and maybe broken) the envelope of the Geneva Convention...but then
a read of "With The Old Breed" by EB Sledge shows that is just the
nature of wars. Even in "The Good War".

[VOA]

bump for publicity

[VOA]

bump for publicity

[Daus]

I was desperate for something to read on my flight home from Vegas and picked this up at the airport. There is nothing on the cover that makes you think it's a hit piece on the soldiers, so I really didn't know what I was buying.

It's about 300 pages covering about 1 year in the life of 'Tiger Force", which was a recon unit that went bad. They were responsible for moving civilians out of a fertile vally to settlement camps to deny food to the VC/NVA. The commanders in the rear leave them out there forever and the guys start to go nuts with no supervision. The commanders like the results so they leave them be.

Largely it's about one guy why starts taking ears and eventually decapitates a baby after his buddy get's killed and pretty much kills anything that moves. The others, including the platoon leader follow suit, and eventually everyone is over the line.

No idea if any of it is true, lots of research by CID by no cases are ever brought.

[VOA]

"No idea if any of it is true, lots of research by CID by no cases are ever brought."

That's why I'm interesting to see if they present any substantive proof.
As I said earlier...I think I heard that military investigators failed
to get anyone to even implicate others in doing atrocities.
Even with promise of full immunity.

[LS]

Nope, but I'll keep the Freepers posted. Also, it's still possible FOX NEWS may run my interview on "Special Report with Brit Hume" on the 4th. They bumped it from Memorial Day due to the CBS news crew, but Jeff Birnbaum who interviewed me said they still want to use it.

[Daus]

That's why I'm interesting to see if they present any substantive proof.

Basically, the investigator get's all kinds of testimony from some of the guys turning on the real bad apples. A LOT of guys flip, so I don't doubt some of the events did happen. There is a lot of testimony from guys who were outraged in the field, but didn't raise a hand to stop it, other than to file a complaint after they left the field or made it back to the states. The last 40 pages of the book are largely CID case file notes with testimony of the ex Tigers.

The case didn't move forward because by the time all the testimony was taken it was 2 or 3 years after we left Vietnam and there is no physical evidence and no testimony from the Vietnamese. The authors then go to Vietnam and supposedly find people who witnesed the crimes but they go into no detail as to how this process was done.

The offense of the book, is the lack of context as to why these guys go over the deep end. No disussion of the NVA/VC tactics, just one sentence at the end of the book which reads kind of like this, "well of course the NVA killed xx thousand of civilians and committed lots of attrocities on our troops, but gee we should be better than that". There are a few comical sections where the authors are openly supportive of the North's motives and plans for the south. "Much more equitable distribution of land".

There are of course a few snarky references to Rumsfeld somehow trying to tie him into the actions of one lone recon unit.

And of course the reason it is being published now is to cash in on the publicity of current day cases.

[VOA]

"There are a few comical sections where the authors are openly supportive of
the North's motives and plans for the south."

I wouldn't be suprised if they approved of the hundreds (thousands) rounded up
and MURDERED by the Communists during the Tet Offensive.

While it didn't have the greatest production values, the "Declassified" series
on The History Channel did have a great show on Tet.
It included the murder of the captured civilians and "the rest of the story"
of the (in)famous summary execution of the Viet Cong guy by the South Viet.
officer. Turned out that the officer had just heard of the massacre (including the
civilians). And that the photographer eventually apologized to the
officer for having captured that moment on film.

Things they don't tell you in school.
Even in history class.

[VOA]

I'll try to keep an eye on FOX News on the Fourth...but a lot of time will
be spent barbequeing!

Oh...have you seen this book, "Oath Betrayed".
If not, it might be of interest as regards American approaches to
winning wars (and the handling of prisoners).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140006578X/qid=1151799513/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0582727-2693511?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

I saw the author on CNN today. Looks like The American Left feels like
Nuremburg Trials will be in order after the WOT is wound down.
And they appear to think it should include physicians and medical personnel
of the US Military in the dock.

Incredible.

[Daus]

The actual quote from the book which doesn't come until page 299.

"Apsey (the CID investigator) knew the North Vietnamese and Vietcong were far worse than Americans in the treatment of their own people. More than six thousand civilians were executed at Hue during tet Tet Offensive in 1968 in one of the worse spates of war attrocities. But Americans should have a higher standard, the highest. We were supposed to be humane, to be tough, brave soldiers - not killers"

That gives you the flavor of the book right there.

[VOA]

Headsup Bump...show airs in 10 minutes (at 11:30 PM EASTERN)