Posted on 06/28/2006 2:06:59 PM PDT by Michael81Dus
A group of 50 pro-Israel Christian tourists came under attack Wednesday from some 100 residents of the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood of Mea She'arim in Jerusalem. Three of the tourists and a police officer were wounded in the attack. They received treatment at the scene. The tourists arrived at Mea She'arim wearing orange T-shirts with the words "Love your neighbor as yourself" printed across them. As they neared one of the squares, the local residents apparently identified them as Christians and began to hit them. Police forces in the area stepped in to stop the violence, but did not make any arrests. Police say they are waiting for the tourists to file official complaints.
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
"Tourists" is not particularly accurate for "Missionaries."
When I read the story I figured that there was more too it than what was reported. The German's were wrong to go to that area.
One has to wonder why Johnathan Lis assigned this particular title to the article.
Thank you for that. It was interesting as I've not heard of this before. It resonated with the part of me that BELIEVES in Judaism, though I'm a practicing Catholic. I believe you can't successfully be Christian if you don't believe in Judaism.
However -- when did the other tribes besides the Levites become priests? Are Levites Jews? Or are Jews only of the tribe of Judah, and possibly Benjamin?
You're misunderstanding. Israel is a "priestly people" to the rest of the world. This is completely distinct from the Levitical priesthood.
Just as there is a distinction between Kohanim, Leviyim, and Yisra'elim among the Jews, so there is a distinction between the Nation of Israel and the Nations of the World. The world is full of distinctions, and everyone has his own assigned role.
This is likely a question that will reveal my idiocy, but why are some people spelling "Christians" with an asterisk in this thread? I have never seen that before.
Under other circumstances, it could be. But if the information we have so far is correct, making an issue of this scuffle could result in enforcement of Israel's law against preaching the gospel to Jews. Visas could be pulled and then the mission would be over. A ripple effect could adversely affect other missions in that country.
You're right -- Christians certainly have the right to defend themselves. But they also have the right not to.
There is no such law. It's against the law to proselytize minors, or to pay for conversion, but that’s it.
If their intent was to cause a confrontation, likely as this neighborhood isn't fertile ground for proselytization, I suppose that could become a visa issue. Obviously the choice of what to do is theirs.
The laws against preaching the gospel to Jews were enacted to placate a very vocal and volatile group of orthodox Jews who feel threatened by the presence of Christian missionaries.
OTOH, many more Israelis are understandably sensitive to the whole issue of being persecuted or excluded due to religious persuasion. Witness how many muslims live in Israel and practice their religion there.
Moreover, and from a political point of view, evangelical Christians are arguably the strongest allies the nation of Israel has in its struggle to survive.
So there's a delicate balance here and the mission must come first, just as Jesus comes first. God looks after his own, and in a world where Christians are being mutilated and murdered for preaching the gospel, getting roughed up a bit should be nothing to these Christians in Israel. Their bruises will heal, but if they permit themselves to be goaded into a high profile contest in the Israeli courts, they will have failed in their mission for Christ.
As to The laws against preaching the gospel to Jews were enacted to placate a very vocal and volatile group of orthodox Jews who feel threatened by the presence of Christian missionaries, there are no such laws. It's illegal to pay for a conversion or to proselytize a minor, under 16 I think, but not sure. Beyond that you can proselytize anyone. In a neighborhood like this an unfriendly reaction is to be expected, which in no way justifies violence.
Your post to me is quite rude and has quite a condescending tone to it. It doesn't really matter if you don't believe what I've told. You may believe whatever you wish but the truth is the truth and your opinion doesn't change that.The things I described most certainly happened. In Jerusalem and in New York City.
Have a joyous and blessed life Sir Luceat Lux. I'll keep you in my prayers...
Excuse me, but in what way did I incite or insult anything? I simply told the truth about something that has happened to people I know. People that happen to be CLERGY in the Russian Orthodox Church. How is that inciting or insulting or out of bounds? Since when did the TRUTH become "out of bounds"?
I had no intention of insulting anyone so if you took it that I apologise but I will not apologise for telling the truth - whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well, you could be right. But my understanding is that in keeping with the broad wording of the 1977 "anti-proselytizing law," the giving of money (amount unspecified) or of any equivalent of money (again, unspecified) or any other benefit to a person (age unspecified), for the purpose of inducing conversion to another religion is punishable by a large fine or by several years imprisonment.
Under this broadly worded statute, the giving of a 2-page tract to any person could qualify as an offense, as could the feeding, clothing and sheltering of indigent persons -- a Christian practice common in Israel.
I looked in vain for a searchable Israeli statute site, so I can't produce the actual text of the law. Perhaps you can find one.
Here is a US Department of State article that generally explores this subject.
C ya
I don't know the background for sure, but I've been told it sprung from an attempt to "purchase" converts to Islam. In Israel religious schools are state funded and some social programs are demonination based, so an increase in Muslims, for example, would likely result in an increase in state funding to their institutions. Whether that was the reason, I don't know. There was also an anti-proselytization law introduced in the late 90s which went nowhere. Some people confuse the two.
I wonder if they were still able to finish their tour? There are so many various sights to see; their trip might not end on a bad note.
Who are the Fred Phelps Christians?
"There was also an anti-proselytization law introduced in the late 90s which went nowhere."
I believe one of the reasons the current 1977 law is rarely if ever enforced is that it could be challenged on grounds that it violates the guarantee of religious freedom as set forth in Israel's Basic Laws.
There are credible reports from many church affiliated and human rights groups concerning the harassing of Christian educational and charity groups in Israel, including but not limited to beatings, threats, destruction of buildings and other property, such as Bibles, commentaries, tracts, etc. Such activity, when carried out against Jews in countries like Russia and Germany, used to be called "pogroms." The authorities in those countries looked the other way, just as the Israelis reportedly do today.
I pity you and as I said in an earlier post I'll pray for you because it seems to me as if you could use the help.
It seems to me that "You can't handle the truth!". What a pity...
"Who are the Fred Phelps Christians?"
They are the nuts who show up at American soldiers' funerals and claim that God likes US soldiers to die because we tolerate gays.
Big early supporter of Al Gore, BTW --- google the two names togeher --- Al and Tipper were often at Phelps' house for fundraisers.
Going back to the UOJ sect in question, a lot of them pre-date the founding of modern Israel and oppose it because they think Israel should only be refounded by the messiah.
I was well on my way to becoming ultra-orthodox myself when my dealings with certain of these folks --- who just add some considerable nonsense to the Law that is, IMHO, not part of the original intent --- turned me 180 degrees in the opposite direction (became a Christian).
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